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Toyo vs. Kumho

Old 11-12-02, 05:52 PM
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Toyo vs. Kumho

there has been a constant arguement over this last season about tires (SCCA road racing, if you didnt know already). i dont know if its the same in other regions, but for the past years, the kumhos have been the spec tire. some are now pushing for toyo next season. it seems both sides have supporters. the arguement is about which tires to use for Spec RX7... Toyo Proxes RA-1 or Kumho V700 victoracer. heres what i got from overhearing both sides of this:

Times will be faster with the kumho, however, they are more expensive and only are good for 2 or 3 race weekends (a weekend consists of 2 qual. and a race). I've also heard the toyo's supposedly "get better" as they get a little more worn someone claims. they are also cheaper and more durable (some go a whole season on 1 or 2 sets). some people claim the kumhos are much better on the first gens than the toyos, others claim toyos are just as good.

well the new rules came out for next season making the Proxes RA-1 the spec tire.... what is everyone's opinion on this?

personally, i think they shouldve let people choose.. have both the kumho and toyo spec tires. then the more competitive drivers can buy kuhmos to turn faster times, and the people who are there more to have fun and not go for top 5 point can buy toyos.

--eric
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Old 11-12-02, 06:52 PM
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Toyo's are usually the preferred spec tire since they wear like stones and are the least expensive DOT race tire. I have seen people use these tires for years on some of the light weight cars. but for shear speed the Kumho's, Goodyears, and Hoosiers are faster than the Toyo's. If everyone has to run the same tire then there is no problem. everyone is stuck with the same good and bad points no one has an advantage as far as tires are concerned and buying a new set for every race will not make them faster.
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Old 11-12-02, 06:52 PM
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im sorry, i am wrong about the prices.... toyos are actually a little more, but come with a $15 rebate or something like that, so its about even. but they do last longer, which is cheaper in the long run.
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Old 11-13-02, 09:55 AM
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in a race series, I'd rather run a spec Toyo than open, levels the playing field, and the Toyo is incredibly long lasting..

But if I had to choose pure speed, Kumho would get the nod over Toyo for sure.

PaulC
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Old 11-13-02, 02:23 PM
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My personal experience:

Toyos shaved to 4/32 on a Datsun 240Z. Great tires, lasted forever, very predictable, didn't go away over the course of a race. Still not as fast as the Hoosier or Goodyear but less expensive.

Kuhmos shaved and heat cycled on a 2nd Gen RX-7. Great tires, seemed to go away a bit sooner in the course of a race, don't last quite as long, a little less expensive.

Hoosiers on both cars. Fast, expensive, you had better be on your game. Better not slide them with the brakes, overcook them early, and know exactly where the limit is.

I am happy to run in the upper half of the field and am not all that worried about running up front because I choose not to spend the money to run there. There is always someone to race with anyway. For my money, the Toyo is my choice. Now with the Speedvision Cup cars on them this year, they should be plentiful, and the price just might come down some.

As far as Spec7 is concerned, come over in CenDiv and race. There are Spec7 cars here and the rules , to my knowledge, don't require a spec tire. There are always large fields at Mid-Ohio as well.

db
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Old 11-13-02, 02:39 PM
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SVWC is going to run the RA1 not the T1S?? Sweet!

PaulC
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Old 11-13-02, 04:32 PM
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Grassroots Motorsports did a test a few issues ago. They didn't find much difference between the Toyo and Kumho tires - I seem to recall a few tenths per lap.
Sure, if you're running at the front of an IT series, it makes a difference, but anything else it really doesn't matter.

Assuming the Toyo wears better (which by most accounts it does), they should be slightly less expensive to run.

I have heard from several drivers that the Toyos feel WAY different than Kumhos. They claimed the Toyo feels like it slides a lot - as if the car is always in a drift. But once they got used to the different feeling, they had no major complaints.

Toyo reps recommend a slightly higher pressure (37-40psi) than the Kumho (~35psi).
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Old 11-13-02, 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Silkworm
SVWC is going to run the RA1 not the T1S?? Sweet!

PaulC
That is correct. Toyo wanted to use the Speed GT series to announce new sizes (mostly larger sedan sizes).
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Old 11-13-02, 04:38 PM
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Re: Toyo vs. Kumho

personally, i think they shouldve let people choose.. have both the kumho and toyo spec tires. then the more competitive drivers can buy kuhmos to turn faster times, and the people who are there more to have fun and not go for top 5 point can buy toyos.
And what is there to gain from that? Instead of making the racing better, you create a two tier system. I like knowning that my completely average performance on track is unrelated to my car (and related 99% to my lack of seat time). Keeping the Spec in "Spec RX-7" forces me to be honest about it (instead of whining about the go-fast bits the top guys can afford).

We are allowed Kumhos through MARRS 3, so everybody can exhaust there stock of V700s.
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Old 11-13-02, 07:23 PM
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yes, that is right... they're letting us use up last years kuhmos for the first 3 races. but you can bet some guys will buy a new set just for the first 3, lol.

and ive heard people say that into turns (right turn for example).... the tire will tend to want to go left before going right, if that makes any sense. from what i understand, the toyos are better on Spec miatas then 1st gen 7's.

--eric
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Old 11-13-02, 08:03 PM
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the point of 2 tires would be..... since kumhos are faster, dont last very long, and are more expensive in the long run... and toyos are the same or a little slower, last very long, and cheaper in the long run... then the point is that the people who don't care or dont want to spend extra money to run up front dont have to (by having toyos), and the people who want to spend extra money to run up front can (by having kumhos).

however, now that i put so much thought into it, i am glad that there is only one tire choice. "crack monkey" i see your point entirely and i agree. i guess what it comes down to is that this arguement can go both ways.

Crack Monkey... do you race in the WDC region?
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Old 11-15-02, 03:22 PM
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Crack Monkey... do you race in the WDC region?
Yup. Crack Monkey = Alistair Hastings. Probably should have mentioned that earlier. I assume specRX7_22 = Mark Lapos (if so, congrats on a pretty good season).

I'll be back next year. The whole tech collapse kinda threw a kink in my racing plans this year. At least I've had plenty of time to sort out the car. And paint it as well (it's still ugly, but not as bad as that factory brown/gold color).
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Old 11-16-02, 05:45 PM
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nope im not mark, im his son... i talk like im him cuz if i didnt no one would take me seriously lol. i just like to stir up some convorsations on this board.

--eric
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Old 11-18-02, 03:06 AM
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toyo 4 life
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