clayne

Which ones even come close to matching the patterns? Adaptor plate needed?

Actually looking over things a bit more looks like one has to go fairly custom to make it fit.

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

Why do you want to run dual MC's? The balance bar setup with remote adjusment is nice sure but... I think most of us just use a lever or dial bias adjustor rigged into the brake line running to the rears.

bradrx7

You mean like these...? :-)

tims

this is a very custom setup that requires some welding and fabrication to be done right. I use a reverse mount Wilwood dual pedal system in my car. I first patched the fire wall with a couple block off plates. then a mounting bracket was welded from the cage to the firewall. then the pedal assembly was installed. the reason for this is absolute brake control. I didn't think I needed this setup at first and many people don't make the switch, but I am glad I did it as now I can feel everything that is hapening in the brake system. the brakes react instantly and the bias control is totally adjustable. you are able to taylor the M/C sizes to get the pedal travel and effort you like.

bradrx7

Tim,
That is correct regarding brake balance and feel. There are only a few of us with this setup as the production run was only 10 units. This setup uses a 'cage' that aligns the MCs with the Tilton bias bar. We all run large front brake setups and larger rear brakes, too. Using manual, non-ABS brakes is a blast.

EProdRx7

here's mine. tough to see but look close...

tims

John,

that is exactly how my car is setup. I just used the less expensive Wilwood pedal assembly. that is a very nicely prepared interior. my compliments

clayne

brad,

Yes precisely like those.

But I know yours was a custom Valspeed kit. Regardless, any information you can offer would be appreciated. I cannot really see bolt patterns and mounting compatibility from the picture.

Travis R

Are you trying to use the stock pedals? I think it might actually be easier to start over with a new assembly from Tilton or Wilwood... pedals, and MC mounts all in one.
I'm planning on usgin the Wilwood double reverse mount too.

bradrx7

Clane and Travis, if I was to do it over, I'd ditch the stock pedal assembly and use a Wilwood or Tilton unit.

RacerJohn, that is a very nice interior setup on your car. Is your cage from Mitch Piper? The door bars lok like his work. Either way, nice job.

1RedR1and1RedPEP

Brad,
I also have the dual master set up that you have but have yet to install it. I have been working some equations as to the right masters to use and so far have determined that a 7/8 for the front at a 7:1 pedal ratio is about right for 50 sq. cm caliper. still working on the rear as we have yet to finalize the caliper choice. I thought I was going to use 50 sq. cm piston area in back also, yes , i know, Very large. but was going to account for it with a smaller rotor,12.25inch Would you mind sharing what rear master and caliper piston size you ultimately settled on ? and rotor diameter?
thanks
1R1

EProdRx7

Thanks for the compliments guys. I did the entire car myself but I do race against Mitch once in a wile. I build cages also and run a prep shop in CT.
As for the MC sizes, be very carefull here. If you plan to use the stock calipers as the rules for EP mandate then the optimum size MC is less then 5/8. Bad thing here is that no one makes a 9/16 mc. You'll have to compensate with mechanical advantage in the pedal.

bradrx7

1R1...
Here is my setup:
pedal ratio; 7 to 1
Front MC: .625 AP
Rear MC: .625 AP
Front disk dia: 324mm
Rear Disk dia: 313mm
Radial depth front: 2.25"
Radial depth rear: 1.50"
Front piston dia: 44mm/36mm
total # of front pistons: 8
Rear piston dia: 31mm
Total # of rear pistons: 2

FYI, the rear rotore is a 99 MAzda unit and the rear caliper is a Wilwood Billet NDL with a custom made bracket from David Breslau. It only took two years to get the setup right... but it is now and works great.

tims

my car looks like an E-prod car but the front brakes are wilwood billet superlite-6(left over big brake kit from my super unlimited days) and larger rotors(11.5") rear is stock calipers and rotors. I like a very solid pedal with almost no travel, so I use a bit of an oversized M/C. 7/8" for the front and 3/4" for the rear. you have to use alot of pressure to stop but you can literaslly jump on the pedal without lockup. this is the part I like about the manual brake setup. it can be taylored to your style and tastes.

1RedR1and1RedPEP

Brad,
now you really have me confused. Isnt the NDL a 4 piston caliper? 1.125" inch piston diameter? giving roughly a 4sq. inch piston area
1R1

bradrx7

1R1... Dammit, I was quoting numbers from a work sheet and entered the stock rear caliper info. DUH.. Yes, the NDL is a 4 piston. I can look up exactly which diameter I used when I go back home from the office as I am not sure from memory which I used. Sorry for the mistake.

1RedR1and1RedPEP

No worries Brad,
Just curious, are you using AP 5200s in front
I have the 5555 6 piston, but the piston area is the same, well 50.1 vs 49.9, close enough for me Also wondering if you tried other MC sizes, I have a 7/8s and a 5/8 MC and am going to start with the7/8s .
thanks for you input
1R1

bradrx7

1R1,
I run Big Reds up front and the AP5200 is very close. John Levy in Boston runs that caliper with his setup. We run the same MCs and rear brakes with no problems on bias. When I get home, I will double check what I sent last night. I think I run mismatched MCs now that I think about it, so I want to be sure. Again, sorry for the bad data, I'd been at a holiday party if you catch my drift. :-)

bradrx7

1R1...
Here is the correct setup I use:
Here is my setup:
pedal ratio: 7 to 1
Front MC: .625" AP
Rear MC: .625" AP
Front disk dia: 322mm x 32mm
Rear Disk dia: 313mm x 21mm
Radial depth front: 2.25"
Radial depth rear: 1.50"
Porsche Big Red calipers
Front piston dia: 44mm/36mm
total # of front pistons: 8
Wilwood billet NDL caliper
Rear piston dia: 1.12"
Total # of rear pistons: 4

This shows the rear 1.12" Wilwood NDL caliper part #120-5074 I use. With matching .625 MCs, the bias bar sets up right at middle when running slicks and PFC 01 compound pads.

Travis R

Has anyone calculated their CG height?
I have calculated an all wilwood system that uses the stock disks. I'm having trouble opening the spreadsheet, but I know I used the dynalite 4 pot calipers in the front and dynalite single 2-pot caliper in the rear. The wilwood pedal mount I'm looking at has either a 5.1:1 ratio or a 6.25:1
I guess the different weights of our cars would throw it off too.

bradrx7

It isn't fun, but this is the easiest way...
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/longtech6.htm

Travis R

I know how to calc. CG height. I'm wondering if any of you have done it yet. My car doesn't have any drive train or cage... so it might be a little off... and by "a little" I mean "a lot".

bradrx7

Sorry, Travis, I misinterperated your question. I calculated mine when I designed the braking system. I can see if I have the data at home and post. It has been a few years, so it may be hard to find. Hehe, yeah, without all that drivetrain stuff you might be off a 'little' <G>