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Suspension setup help

Old 01-06-07, 11:17 PM
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Suspension setup help

Hi there all, I am trying to estimate how much the suspension is going to cost me for my car, but first I need to know what needs to be changed. I have decided on koni yellows with GC coilover kit. I know there is alot more to take into consideration, I want my suspension to be perfect. So what else Do I need to change/upgrade to have my suspension working perfect? Also, anyone know how much it costs to revalve koni's? and what they can handle with the revalving?

This is what I assumed need to be changed/upgraded:
-struts
-struts revalving
-springs
-strut bars
-bushings
-stabalizers

so what did I miss? im sure there is something. And if anyone knows how much any of this would cost, please let me know.

Thanks,

Carthik
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Old 01-07-07, 12:18 AM
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need more info first, is this a sa/fb/fc/fd? also, what set of rules are you building to? do you plan on keeping this a street car? what tires are you going to be running, etc, etc. It really is quite a bit more complicated. For example, if this is a first gen, I'd definitely throw a set of camber plates on that list. I'm also curious about why you think the revalving is necessary, konis come fairly stiff, and the valving will be dependent on the spring rates you are using.
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Old 01-07-07, 12:49 AM
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oh im sorry. fc. Im am going to run toya proxy RA-1 on them. yes cambe plates were on my list as well, forgot to add them. original post edited. Street car? not sure, maybe, I dont mind changing out the suspension when a race approaches.

As for the revalving, I really want a top notch suspension setup, i know it really isnt that top notch but would like to get the most out of the konis.

Carthik

**EDIT**
for some reason I cant edite my original post, here is the list:

-struts
-gc coilovers
-camber plates (anyone reccomend a cheap pricewise brand?)
-struts revalving
-springs
-strut bars (anyone reccomend a cheap pricewise brand?)
-bushings
-stabalizers (anyone reccomend a cheap pricewise brand?)

Last edited by Carthik; 01-07-07 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 01-07-07, 08:46 AM
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Perfect? If you are starting with an FC, then the suspension will never be "perfect" (hint: McPherson Struts).

You want something like what the big-boys run (Speedsource ITS or the E-Prod folks)? Then plan on spending many-many thousands.

I think, since you just started driving, that you just need to get something together that works well enough (stock with some decent springs), and invest your money and time on the driver - then decide what you want to do in the racing world.

Run half a dozen auto-x's, spend a few weekends at HPDEs, and then decide what you want.

-b
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Old 01-07-07, 09:01 AM
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You might call Mazdatrix.com and ask them what it takes to build a killer suspension for your car. If you can get Dave on the phone there that would be your best bet.
My next stop would be iscracing.net and see what they have for your second gen. For great values on items like camber plates and the like looks like REspeed is making some good products at great prices.

The advice above from Wrankin should never be discounted.
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Old 01-07-07, 11:08 AM
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Since you said "race", you'll be dealing with a sanctioning organization (SCCA, NASA, etc). Don't forget that they all have prep rules. Don't put something on that car that's illegal for the context that you might want to race in.
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Old 01-07-07, 01:39 PM
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just ordered these what you guys think the both compreshion and rebound adjustible. they are g4
Attached Thumbnails Suspension setup help-coilovers.jpg  
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Old 01-10-07, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wrankin
Perfect? If you are starting with an FC, then the suspension will never be "perfect" (hint: McPherson Struts).

You want something like what the big-boys run (Speedsource ITS or the E-Prod folks)? Then plan on spending many-many thousands.

I think, since you just started driving, that you just need to get something together that works well enough (stock with some decent springs), and invest your money and time on the driver - then decide what you want to do in the racing world.

Run half a dozen auto-x's, spend a few weekends at HPDEs, and then decide what you want.

-b
I know I can never have a perfect suspension setup with koni yellows. Let me rephrase my sentence, I want to build the best setup using konis. I dont have money to waste on stock struts and better springs as the one in my parts car arent good anyway. Also, the class I plan on racing in has free suspension. And CPA7man, i will look into REspeed. c'mon, you guys must know more on how to get my suspension setup going, help?
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Old 01-11-07, 07:51 AM
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I'm running GCs 440/275, cusco camber plates, Koni Yellows, rear camber adjuster, removed rear sway bar, Racing Beat front sway bar
The spring rates are compliant enough to run on less-than-perfect track surfaces. If you are going to tweak by track , you can go up on the rates to whatever valving you are doing to the Konis. I am an autocrosser (CSP), and HPDE student (NASA-MA Level 3), and find this level of suspension prep to be a nice balance that works for both. This setup is certainly the budget approach, but you first need to define the budget, then work from there.
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Old 01-11-07, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dbgeek
I'm running GCs 440/275, cusco camber plates, Koni Yellows, rear camber adjuster, removed rear sway bar, Racing Beat front sway bar
Pretty common setup. I assume you're running the 6" front barrel springs for clearance? I have the slightly cheaper version of this (400/225 w/ KYB-AGX) on my track car.

Original Poster: if you are bound and determined to throw money at your car, the above is a reasonable track suspension for those on a budget[*]. Note that if you lower the car you will need both the new rear camber link as well as well as camber plates for the front. The Cusco plates are decent, but don't allow for caster adjustment. The GC plates handle caster.

In addition to the cost of the suspension, once you have everything bolted up plan on finding someone who can align and corner-balance the car. It should run you about $200 US unless you have a buddy with an alighment rig and a set of scales.

Also, are you planning on driving this car on the street? This setup will make the ride fairly harsh. But you're young. Your spine still springs back after compression.

If you plan on starting racing, or even regular track days, start hoarding money away now. Between track fees, brake pads, brake rotors, tires, all your fluids, food, lodging and gas it will suck up cash fast.

Good luck,

-bill

[*] - it is not perfect, but you probably won't be able to tell the difference until you have a lot more experience.
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Old 01-11-07, 03:55 PM
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I got the Cusco plates cheap, otherwise I would have gone with GC plates.
Front springs are the barrel type, yes. I run 225/50/15 RA-1s on 15x7 35offset rims, and have plently of clearance. I actually threw on a pair of mustang 16x7.5 wheels wearing 245/45/16 Yoko ES100s and they fit... on the front

I forgot to mention that I got some top-hats for the springs that have a torrington bearing and hardened wear surfaces (essentially washers) to eliminate binding of the top-hat and camber plate.
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Old 01-15-07, 10:37 PM
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thanks for all the info dbgeek and others. I will research how much all that would cost later. But is that ALL I need to redo the suspension on my car? any other stock parts that maybe need to be replaced? I want to get one large lump sum and start saving from there.

and dpgeek, what is HPDE?

Carthik
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Old 01-15-07, 11:08 PM
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i recommend the oposite, decide what you have a budget for, and work with what ya got. You could spend 10k on a suspension if you wanted to. I suggest to set a budget that you are comfortable with and stick to that, that way you wont be overextending your finances also. Like other have seid, its a balance, 10k suspension doesnt equal wins, its mostly about you at this point, start simple and make improvements as your skills do, wont be a huge hit to the wallet that way too...but thats all my opinion. Hi Performace Driving Event...track day. Good luck!!
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Old 01-16-07, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Carthik
and dpgeek, what is HPDE?
HPDEs are High Performance Driving Events put on by NASA (National Auto Sport Association). The link will do better than I would at explaining:
http://www.nasaracing.net/hpde.htm

I also have urethane bushings from Energy Suspension, and rear toe-eliminator bushings (which help stability while cornering). Make sure all of the stock components are functioning properly. Replacing stuff just to replace it isn't very wise unless the new part improves handling or response.

For the record, this is the budget solution to replacing/upgrading the suspension. I completely agree with bean13 that you need to define your budget BEFORE buying anything. I paid ~1500 for all of the suspension parts over time. I budgeted a monthly expense, and assembled, cleaned, etc as I went at $200 per month. I autocrossed during the build to learn what each mod did for the car, and had a blast while doing it all myself.

The stock suspension is very capable as-is. If you feel you need to change anything, the two recommemdations that I regard as musts with the FC are front camber (use camber bolts before buying camber plates) and rear toe bushing replacement (either a fresh toe bushing or an eliminator). Those two mods will remove the two weak spots in the suspension.
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Old 01-16-07, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carthik
thanks for all the info dbgeek and others. I will research how much all that would cost later. But is that ALL I need to redo the suspension on my car? any other stock parts that maybe need to be replaced? I want to get one large lump sum and start saving from there.

and dpgeek, what is HPDE?

Carthik
well if this is a first time thing, you're better off with the koni/gc combo to start with, and just go racing. theres enough to setup/learn with just that to keep you plenty busy. basically if you're driving you want to worry about driving, not the diff mount...

440/275 is good, we ran 350/275 for years. the koni's dont need revalving right away (maybe at all).

eventually you want to change the front a arm bushings, eliminate the DTSS, etc etc but all that stuff made very little laptime difference, it just "felt better" our old car ran its best time with the 350/275/agx, eyeball alignment, s4 engine, dtss installed, stock a arm bushings, and a REALLY GOOD DRIVER. with the full suspension we could run consistently about a second slower, with either driver
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Old 01-17-07, 11:44 AM
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Off the shelf Koni's, Bilstein's, etc. are not engineered for optimum performance on the cars they are available for. They would not be in business if they built the perfect damper for every application. Much of the internal componetry is shared. Companies like Tri-Point Engineering offer a service to revalve new Koni's and perhaps one other damper to more accurately meet the suspension needs of the RX7 in regards to weight, balance, style of circuits. When you call them they pose a myriad of questions to set up your dampers to your car. Contact ISC, AWR, or Tri-Point for truly tailored IT suspension packages.
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