scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, learn to drive first. In addition to sounding horrible and wasting tires, purposefully putting your car into severe angles of oversteer and gracefully regaining traction is not an easy task.

There is a link to a very good driving techniques website in this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/race-techniques-134/turnfast-com-down%3B-similar-sites-372849/


-s-

TurboIIGuy

AHAHAHAhaahAHaHahaahAHHahahhhaha

apexdrive

This thread is a perfect example of why I've always preferred drifting to the mainstream racing scene. I've never been much of a fan of this site, though I like to check out the topics now and then. I had to register just to respond to this.

Many of the autocrossers and drag racers are, to put it simply, too serious about something that most of the time equates to an incredibly expensive hobby. Many of them care only about winning, and only help out the people that don't have a chance of beating them, and that's if their prospective students come into the sport with enough humility to please their egos.

I started out as a drifter back before things hit the magazines and started popping up in forums, and I learned my driving skills with drifting in mind. I had nobody to learn from and no money to run on tracks or in autocross events, so I practiced on back roads and read every book on racing that I could get a hold of and applied what I learned.

In all actuality, many more deaths and injuries arise from street racing than drifting. I'm sure you all have never, ever, gone stoplight racing or driven recklessly on a street.

Yes, I know what early and late apexes are, and using them to extend your straights. I'm quite capable of controlling my oversteer and understeer, and I know how to use weight shift. I'm not trying to be cocky, just pointing out the fact that I'm not as much of a stupid amatuer as people like to generalize the drift crowd as being.

Also, racing skills don't equal drifting skills. I've seen racers come into the drift scene thinking that what they already know would make the transition easy, and they were very wrong, becoming, at best, mediocre drifters. Also, when it comes to drifting, the ideal line isn't always the best.

This guy, kid, or whatever he is, came on here looking for a good place to start. In typical autocross/drag fashion, you gave him a place to start, but not without ripping on him and showing off how much you know. A common theme I've heard around many autocross events is this: the guys who've got the most suggestions for you and your car, are often the ones you should pay the least attention to.

Yes, drifters trash cars and go through tires like mad, it's part of the sport. At the first D1 in the US, only one of the professional drivers avoided crashing their car. When you're constantly balancing on the very edge of control, it's pretty unavoidable, no matter who you are.

Nobody's making fun of you for enjoying what you enjoy, try to show some of this maturity you like to talk about and have the same courtesy for others.

Boswoj

OK - nice of you to throw your body in front of the kid so we can rip on you for a while instead........

You just made a beautiful example of what the gross majority of posters here were trying to say! You clearly DON'T know anything about racing, autocrossing, or even <shudder> drag racing and are flipping out your uninformed perceptions of them to justify your uneducated view. You think racers only help those who don't have a chance to beat them? I'll bet every single racer that posts here will back me when I say that the huge majority of their competitors would helpthem any way they could to make a race. Sure, there are good guys and bad guys in any activity, but even a hard to like peice of work like me can say there a a whole lot more good ones than bad ones. Heck, even the guys that don't really like me would give me a part out of their trailer to make sure they get a chance to beat me fair and square out on the track.

No - lets get down to your REAL problem. Let's unpack the "conforming non-conformist" translator and process your little manifesto.

1) "I started out as a drifter back before things hit the magazines and started popping up in forums, and I learned my driving skills with drifting in mind. I had nobody to learn from and no money to run on tracks or in autocross events, so I practiced on back roads and read every book on racing that I could get a hold of and applied what I learned. "

Translates as: I'm not a blind, mindless trend folower - I'm a radical trend setter - look how cool I am. I'm poor and underpriveledged and took nothing and turned it into, well, nothing but I'm demanding that everybody recognize my great achievement even though I don't care about your approval. (look at me, look at me!) The fact that it pisses you all off that I'm practicing my idiocy on public roads only makes my tiny privates tingle more!

2) "In all actuality, many more deaths and injuries arise from street racing than drifting. I'm sure you all have never, ever, gone stoplight racing or driven recklessly on a street."

Translates as: I don't know anything at all about statistics, but when I state things in an authoritative tone my peers tend to believe me. That way I can present my statements as "facts" rather than "opinions". Since I don't REALLY have any idea what those numbers might be it's best if I make a statement like "rape is way better than murder because in rape nobody dies." That way hopefully everybody will overlook the basic fact that regardless of which is worse, neither is right!

( If you think that this forum hacks on drifters, maybe you should get some of these posters' thoughts about street racing! If you haven't figured it out yet - the people here are talking about real, responsible, sanctioned racing - so your barbs about street racing really don't apply to most of us here! And yes - REAL statistics show that roadracers and autocrossers tend to have lower accident rates than the general driving population.)

3) "Yes, I know what early and late apexes are, and using them to extend your straights. I'm quite capable of controlling my oversteer and understeer, and I know how to use weight shift. I'm not trying to be cocky, just pointing out the fact that I'm not as much of a stupid amatuer as people like to generalize the drift crowd as being."

Translates as: Oh yes, I am awesomely good - much better than all of you as a matter of fact. Especially when there is no way that I will ever have to prove it. I'm not being cocky, just pointing out that I have the mythical "MADD SKILLZ" and I command that you recognize my superiority with no further scrutiny!

4) "Also, racing skills don't equal drifting skills. I've seen racers come into the drift scene thinking that what they already know would make the transition easy, and they were very wrong, becoming, at best, mediocre drifters. Also, when it comes to drifting, the ideal line isn't always the best."

Translates as: Even though I have already admitted that I don't have the required attitude, respect, and patience that it takes to learn about racing and car control, and certainly haven't participated in actual racing, I know exactly what is involved and how it's done. I can safely say without any fear of nayone penetrating the inky blackness of my ignorance that "drifting" is not only completely different to racing but also completely superior. Drifters wouldn't demean themselves enough to race, but all of you racers who are dying to join the chosen cool ones and drift will never be good enough. Like me. Did I mention how cool I am?

5) "Yes, drifters trash cars and go through tires like mad, it's part of the sport. At the first D1 in the US, only one of the professional drivers avoided crashing their car. When you're constantly balancing on the very edge of control, it's pretty unavoidable, no matter who you are."

Translates as: Yes, the more you establishment monkeys hate it the better I like it. You don't like sensless waste, foolish destruction, and things that don't end up with clear cut winners? Hmmmm .... what kind of crap can we think up that combines that in to one big stupid marketing attempt to separate easily influenced young consumers from their parents money? I know - lets call it drifting! If I can turn the stereo up another notch and get old man Smithers to shake his fist at me I might just pop a chubbie!

(Translator off - I can't take much more!)

It's an "activity". It's entertainment, not sport. Start a drift forum and go discuss the proper angle for your hat there and I will never visit, nor bother you. My issue is that I refuse to legitimize idiotic and dangerous street driving by having it in the "racing" forum. I have NEVER criticized organized and sanctioned track drifting events, although I consider them a SHOW and not COMPETITION. Go - enjoy with my blessings. Unless you call the paved driveway on your grand estate "backroads" then you have been endangering others on PUBLIC roads which just makes you another punk-*** street racer.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

Ah **** I could feel my brain cells die as I read that bit. Do you know how slip angles and grip work? You think a tire operating within its happy place is more likely to lose control at the wrong moment than one that is sliding?

There was drifting going on at hyperfest, I watched the finals. I'll allow that it can be fun to watch, but the people it attracts... ugh.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." HL Mencken

s2_rx7

After Participating in SCCA and Drag events, I have found that the many of the people attracted to such events are not very helpful. MOST of them (not all) are there to win. The only helpful racers that I have met have been those that are not in my class or those that were not young drivers (meaning at least in their 40s) Many of them are very serous about winning. Not about being there to have fun. I don’t blame them one bit, but after all this is a hobby. Aren’t hobbies supposed to be fun? None of them are getting paid to race. Hence why it is Amateur racing. I have notice the Drifters are much more fun crowd. I have participated in many “Drift Day” events and the only thing that the drifters are worried about is safety. The main mind set there is to have fun and Fine Tune your driving skills. Drifting in the public eye has turned into a show, I don’t argue that, but the true root of it comes down to having fun, just like a day out surfing. Many people don’t understand that. I do not condone racing or drifting on the street, not to say that it doesn’t happen. I would hope everyone would go to a track no matter drift or racing. AS far as “skills” that keep being brought up, It is like comparing Bicycle racing to BMX biking, a bike racer doesn’t drop right into a half pipe without learning how to do so first, and the BMX rider can’t race bikes until he trains. Same deal with drifting, and racing, two totally different skills. I hate to have them compared. I’ve seen Awesome Auto crossers try and drift and they can’t. But I have also seen drifters that can’t pull good times racing. The main thing I found that I like about drifting is that you can ether do it, or you cannot. No Middle ground, no room to Bullshit. But if you are willing to learn the “drift” community is a lot more open into helping beginners get started. All of the legitimate “drifters” have been trying to fight this Stereo Types that you put us in with the street racing idiots. I haven’t met a good drifter yet, that won’t say, “Go to a controlled area and practice and learn safely.”

I’m currently disgusted with how ”SOME PEOPLE” seem to be attacking others in order to try and proved a point, by bashing their creditability. And not Discussing Real points. But I can’t say that it doesn’t sound like the same type of attitude I got at the Autocross Events.

rynberg

It's unfortunate that some of you have had to deal with auto-x snobs, but I can tell you that my experiences at the track and auto-x have been completely the opposite...for the most part. That said, I don't go to SCCA auto-x (I go to a local club).

The problem with "drifting" to many of us "racers" is the type of crowd it attracts -- which is mainly the ricer/import "lifestyle". That may not be fair to you serious and safe drifters but who said life was fair? I'm aware that true and "professional" drifting takes serious driving skills but all of that is swamped under by the less than savory elements of drifting....

To address the post a few posts above....this is the RACE SECTION -- for auto-x and road racing. Drifting is not racing, it's a show-off competition. It is subjectively judged. That's not an insult, just the facts.

rhscare

This thread is showing, yet again, the ridiculous attitudes and egos of many drivers. I have been driving solo 2 off and on for the last 6 years. I have gotten into drifting and found the drivers, while they may be young, are just as passionate if not more so then many SCCA "racers", who by the way can be increadibly arrogant. Yes there are kids who give the sport a bad name, by tearing up city streets and acting stupid. However, there are even more who generally respect the rules of the road and are only looking for a ligitimate venue to practice. 98% of the drifters I know, have no desire to drift on the streets, but are given few other options due to the ignorance of most sanctioning bodies. If there were areas in the US, such as Drift Land in Japan, people would be happy to take their cars there. However us locally have had made numerous attempts with the local SCCA to support some sort of local drift scene, only to be denied. Most drifters are into other forms of motorsports as well and appretiate the skill it takes for Solo II. Most people are passing judgement knowing little to nothing of what the sport entails. We know its not racing. Noone ever said it was. But no matter how much the whiny little miata drivers hate it, it IS a motorsport. We are all in it for the same reason and thats for our love of cars. The way we show it may be different, but its the truth. People need to calm down and learn that there are more ways to do things then their own. Relax and learn what gets other people excited. If people continue on so closed minded, from either side, they are only missing out on something they could trully enjoy.

s2_rx7

I would Agree That it is not racing; in fact, i love the fact that it is not. Many times the tandem "battles" people think that it is important to pass the other car; it’s not the point. I would urge any of the auto cross drivers to go try driving in a event once, regardless if you like it or not, it will help you hone some skills, but it would really give you a chance to meet the real Drifters. Most events run about $100 to enter. Which is not too, bad, but you get a lot of track time.
I do have to thank you both for behaving like Adults. And I Value your opinions, because I don't get slander, coming from your keyboards about the people posting. And I’m sure that many more people appreciate that too. THANK YOU!

Gene

iTrader: (1)

You might want to talk to NASA. They're a more fun group than the SCCA, I think, and they have been supporting drifting at Hyperfest, and probably other events I don't know about.

s2_rx7

Bump

apexdrive

I never claimed to be able to drive better than anyone else here, and never made any personal attacks on anyone else's driving skills. And lumping me in with the 'mad skillz' ricer crowd seems a little odd when I'm placing a V-8 in my RX-7.

What I was trying to say, that Boswoj decided to twist, was that drifting and racing are different, and require different techniques. I couldn't hop on a race track and instantly be a good racer, any more than a racer could start drifting and expect instant success. I think s2_rx7 explained this quite nicely.

Also, I never placed anyone in danger with my practicing, other than myself, my car, and maybe some deer or opossums that could've been in the area. My deepest apologies to the families of those animals for my wanton irresponsibility, I was young and foolish. I condone responsible driving in areas where people aren't endangered.

What I don't understand, is how drifting can be considered senseless waste and foolish destruction any more than any other motorsport? None of them are necessary, nothing requires us to drive these vehicles. I don't see anyone complaining when a driver performs celebratory doughnuts after winning a race.

How is professional drifting any more about marketing than professional racing? The old maxim 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' applies to both.

It's done for enjoyment, pure and simple. I don't try to cheapen what you enjoy; it'd be nice to receive the same courtesy.

Boswoj

The problem is clear from the perspective of responsible drivers and responsible racers. To be fair to those who have legitimately developed high levels of car control, and choose to use them in safe, sanctioned drifiting "exhibitions", I will try to remember to refer to the rest of the core drift following as "amatuer drifters"!

At the risk of "twisting" your point, how can you POSSIBLY explain the following statements:

1) Apexdrive - "Also, I never placed anyone in danger with my practicing, other than myself, my car, and maybe some deer or opossums that could've been in the area. My deepest apologies to the families of those animals for my wanton irresponsibility, I was young and foolish. I condone responsible driving in areas where people aren't endangered."

2) rhscare - "98% of the drifters I know, have no desire to drift on the streets, but are given few other options due to the ignorance of most sanctioning bodies."

If you are EVER practicing drifting on public roads, you are breaking the law and endangering lives. No excuses. No whining about "the man" not building you "drift parks" with other peoples money. There is ALWAYS a choice - you can choose to try to find a safe and legitimate venue to hold clinics that will improve your car control skills OR SIMPLY REFUSE TO DRIVE IN THIS FASHION! Oh! - Wait! - what was I thinking! Existing motorsports facilities and parking lots all over the nation offer all manner of advanced driver training, and some of them FOR NEXT TO NOTHING! In my neck of the woods alone IRDC, Cascade, SCCBC, Team Continental, BMWCCA, PCA, Alfa Club, Mustang Club, Corvette Club, and Proformance all offer some level of driving events and instruction so you can LEGITIMATELY develop car control skills. I personally volunteer several days a year and instruct at these schools so I can give back to the sport that I enjoy so much. I instruct people with ALL kinds of cars, of ALL ages, and we always start with ME checking MY ego at the door, then the student doing the same. That clears the way for BOTH of us to have a great time while HUGE progress is made in car control. Your problem is not drifitng, or money, or your age - IT'S YOUR ATTITUDE! Am I asking you not to enjoy motorsports however you choose? Hell no! I'm asking you to set aside your angry, young, authority-hating ego and actually LEARN something before you kill yourself, or worse yet, someone else! Defending yourself by saying that you can't afford to follow an established path to developing some skill doesn't cut it either. I always laugh when young people say stupid things like "I can afford the car, just not the insurance." Uh - wake up, I think you might have taken repeated blows to the head! If you can't afford the insurance YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE CAR. It also follows that if you can afford to drift, YOU CAN AFFORD TO LEARN PROPER CAR CONTROL AND SAFETY! No one is MAKING you drift. Face it - cars are a luxury, you are not required to have one. Drifting is expensive, because it tears up equipment that it costs money to replace. For the cost of a couple of DJ Grunting Obscenities new CD's you could be lapping an actual racetrack and building some credible skills to back up that big talk. To responsible adults, choosing to drift on public roads says more about your lack of maturity and character than about your status as a spokesman for your responsibility-challenged peer group. You have been raised into an "immediate gratification" generation. Just becasue you want something, doesn't mean you should get it. Just because something makes you feel good, that doesn't make it right. If it is true that the "pro drifters" are trying to legitimize their activity by distancing themselves from the typical "stereo-punk" fan, then you should listen to them. Ten years from now, you will be realizing that almost anything worth having takes hard work and sacrifice, and that makes it TWICE as good when you actually EARN IT.

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

I thought you went a bit too far on your first post Boswoj but this post is right on. In my opinion there isn't really a better section for this thread to be placed in so it is fineto be talking about drifting here because it is a form of motorsports competition, however you are quite right, if you are practicing drifting on public roads what you are doing is immature and illegal no matter how safe, how cautious, and how few cars may be around. There are sanctioned events out there, you just have to find them. They might be a lot of travel time away, but hey I travel over 20,000 miles a year just to race in parking lots for 10 minutes or less of actual driving time each weekend 20 times a year.

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

I beleive drifting has helped me in my driving skills. Im still far from great, but it has helped me learn limits to my car to some extent. As for praticing on public roads. i do it...but i go out at 12, and have a couple set corners that i can see clearly if any track would be approaching. And i mean i have complete view for a good distance. And i try to pick a spot that has no poles, curbes etc to help protect my car. So thats the only time i would see it well enough to even try it on public roads. Parking lots are great, just be wary...people will get upset and call the cops unless you are in a very secluded place. The best as people would say are sactioned events...but of course it u live in bumf**k, north dokota, it might be tough. Just be smart and have some COMMON SENSE.

As for people that bash drifting. Its a fun sport, its just fun. i hate all these "whats the point" and "stupid ricers" It is just enjoyable to burn away some tires. Cause i know all of you when you were younger loved doing doughnuts, or toasting a nice set of tires.

DamonB

This guy was completely safe on public roads too

I can't get over just how dumb this really is. Everyone who drives "crazy" on public roads insists they know the road, it's safe, there's nobody coming etc. It's all complete crap. That's why we call them "accidents", because you didn't mean to do it. Your blessed when it's only your car, your property or your body that gets screwed up.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

That's why I started doing HPDE instead of Auto-x... the seat time to wasted time ratio is much higher, and the seat time per dollar actually ends up cheaper.

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

he must have been going way to fast, i never do anything above 30. I try to work more on transition, so i keep everything slower on the "roads i know" I will never attempt anything over 40 unless its a parking lot or track

Boswoj

The point is that there is no SAFE way to drift on public roads! What about the next guy along who finds your car upside down in the middle of the road? What about the cop who has to risk his own safety to try to get your unconscious and stupid *** out of your burning car? What about the poor EMT who gets called out to try and keep you alive until you get to the hospital, or worse yet gets to shovel your dead body into a bag for a trip to the morgue? Nobody cares if you are hurt or die? You got parents who look forward to waiting for you to awake from your coma in the hospital? You have a girlfriend who thinks it would be neat to be the one who identifies your body for the police? Quit being an idiot and trying to justify your selfish and immature behavior! It's too bad that you aren't closer to the area where I live, because you could be out learning the RIGHT skills, at a much faster pace than you will ever aquire them yourself, and doing so in a way that minimizes any danger to you, and eliminates the danger to the innocent drivers in your area!

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

funny thing is....i do attend sactioned meets, and attend autox, and road race events. All perfectly safe and legal. And i do learn there, but with the little time i can get at those events that is not enough for myself. Drifting is dangerous, i never said it wasnt. Most of the top drifters, didnt grow up having a track close by or the area to pratice, they did what they could to accel to where they are now. I dont like getting into arguing like 18yr old babies. Drifting is dangerous on public roads, i know it, but i will proceed to pratice on my own turf. I will never tell anyone to pratice on roads as i do

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

i also find, for older people who have steady decent paying jobs, and access to tracks or local groups its easy for them to say "stupid kids, they are gonna kill themselves or someone else" and how immature they are. Most people like myself a 22yr old military/college student . Have a hard enough time keeping up with our cars, and school, and whatever part time job we may have. We do they best we can with what we have. Im just lucky enough to be in the military and have been activted which has helped pay college and modifications.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I don't think the point is to not tell anyone else to practice on roads. The point is to not do it on the street period. Think about it when, god forbid, you get too loose and slide right into the sedan coming out of the blind corner carrying a family of 4.

Boswoj

Whatever, Turd-o23. I've got a feeling you aren't going to do too well in college, because you lack the ability to understand and create logical arguments! It is better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt! The more you say, the stupider you sound - but that might be what you are shooting for! Regardless, I've wasted enough time and effort on you. When you do us all a favor by wiping yourself out of the gene pool - try not to take any innocent bystanders with you. I'm done with this thread, and good riddance to bad garbage.

Rusty Shackleford

i go to my high school lot its like a block away and is the size of 2 football fields (even though there are a few islands which i think today when i drove by they were taking out to make the lot bigger) but only on saturdays since teachers and cleaning people stay late everyday of the week...but i only go when it rains because of no lsd and i dont wanna waste my tires or leave marks incase cops show up...because its happened but get this..my mom was in the car...hahahaha and she told him since it was a new car to me and since it didnt have any features like anti lock brakes that she wanted to teach me in the rain what it felt like to spin out of control and have locked brakes while in a controlled place...i was like SWEET.....haha

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

so i suppose that ALL professionals learned everything on the track and NEVER drive fast on roads? Drifting or not, any fast driving on roads is dangerous. And i can bet on it that all of you have speed on roads and sometimes pushed your cars. It is no different, you can lose control just as easily.