Nihilanthic

Yep, I was amazed too. I just downloaded the SCCA rulebook .pdf and was going through it, and saw this:



Well, is this a typo? Or is there some mythical V6 RX-7 out there?

Also, I heard turbo 12as were in GT3, but the book says no turbocharging! Anyone able to clarify that?

Thanks in advance... and enjoy the laugh! lol.

EDIT: Just noticed that they also had a provision for a rotary Miata... Oh, SCCA... if only you read RX-7Club.

Boswoj

Modern SCCA GT cars are purpose built tube framed cars that are allowed to mix and match engines as long as they come from the same manufacturer. There are a lot of pretty interesting things about the GT rules, but the engine rules are pretty straight forward. Nissans are allowed the 240 sx four cylinder, the late model z-car v6 or the early z-car straight six. It's not that complicated once you figure it out.

Since the bodies are nothing more than fiberglass silhouettes over a purpose built tube frame, combinations that were never road cars are commonplace. One of our local racers took off his 240sx body, put on a new 350z body, then decided he didn't like the aero so he went back to the 240sx. There are still "tub" cars racing GT, but since the newer cars aren't based on production cars at all, just about anything is possible.

Nihilanthic

OK.. just what mazda 3L are they talking about then? One doesnt quickly come to mind for race use :P

Also, do you know anything about the 12a turbo and what class it sin?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i was actually the initiating force as to the current GT rules that you list.

that doesn't mean i am taking credit for the change nor was i the single reason they did change.

in 1984 at the Road Atlanta Runoffs i rented the top floor of the start/finish line tower and invited all GT-interested parties to a meeting re a fundamental rethink of GT prep rules. tires cos, car cos, chassis builders, engine builders and of course the guys who pay for it all, the competitors.

the result was the prep rules we see today.... tube frames, any motor within the manufacturer, conversion to rear drive of front drive cars etc...

the concept was to get away from stultifying rules that limited brand participation and settle on tube frames w real racing components.

and away from hacked up unibodies. they have their place in IT.

thus the rotary miata and the v6 rx7.

GT3 has always been my first love amongst the 22 SCCA classes and i am proud to say i had a hand in structuring the class as it is currently constituted. i ran in the class for 22 seasons and finshed 2nd at the Runoffs in 84, the year i started the rules changes moving.

of course in a mazda RX3 running a bridgeported Roger Mandeville motor

howard coleman

Nihilanthic

LOL... good job. Too bad Im still wet behind the ears and not likely to be engaged in such racing anytime soon :P I was BORN IN 1984.

I still cant find out who knows if they allow turbo 12as in GT3 or not, or what 3L V6 theyre referring to - the old JE V6 or the Duratec V6 (AKA AJ) from Ford?

Sorry ask so many questions Ive been unable to find any straight info on it. But, well, a properly tuned 3L V6 could make plenty of power for a one-ton race car and with turbos we've all seen that JGTC 350Z car... wow. Plus if you wanna bend the rules a lil and throw a SHO in there... *drool*

Anyway, I was just curious and figured someone might be interested in that, didnt think Id bump into the guy who let it happen! Thanks for posting

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

no turbos in gt3.

'don't know what v6.... maybe the 929 3 valve.

howard coleman

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

just another piece of info for you...

the GT3 class is an approx 250-270 flywheel hp class at around 2000 pounds. the SCCA Competition Board watches ontrack performance like a hawk. for instance in addition to lap times in qualifying and in the race they often monitor top speed at the end of the straight. (mine was the fastest in the field at the 84 runoffs at 143). they then change carb restrictors. when i bought/built my mazda in 83 the restricitor was 50 mm. 6 years later it was 38 mm. big difference. we did go faster by moving the torque/hp curve up the rpm scale. my motors ran between 7000 and 10,000 rpm during 89 my last season.

you can't get much of an edge in SCCA... (unless you are a mfr and pay money to... ) but that's another story.

howard coleman

13B_boost

Just to add to the confusion I remember seeing a GT1 MX6 running a 2 rotor then 3 rotor in the SE region. If I remember correctly the name of the driver/owner was Carlos Lopez.
So I can say there are some variations out there.

christaylor

No turbos in SCCA except in the division catchall classes (SP, ITE, etc.) if those. Gotta go somewhere else with your turbo car, like NASA.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

Not entirely true. I know I've see WRX's and Dodge Neon's. I assume they don't have to pull the turbos. T2 and maybe migrating to T3. Correct me if I'm wrong I don't keep up with those class rules and/or cars.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

No turbos allowed in EP, GT-2, GT-3, and GT-Lite.

The 3 liter V-6 is probably the same one as in my wifes Mazda 6.

SCCA GT-2 and GT-3 race classes have been struggling, and several times have failed to meet minium SCCA required number of cars entering races over the last few years. The GT-2 class is VERY expensive to run up front. Dave Finch's front running Porsche is for sale at $350,000. It used to be that tube frame was the way to go, but if that was still true, then why are there not plenty of GT-2 and GT-3 tube frame cars racing now? There are not as many men who want to build their own chassis and bodies and suspensions AND have the bucks to run up front in GT-2. These guys who do have the bucks to race GT-2 are buying ready built Porsche GT cup cars. They want to race, not build a car from scratch. (I am a guy who likes to do all his own work.)
SCCA GT-1 has been healthy for many years because of the supply of ex- pro TransAm cars trickling down to the amateur levels. There used to be ex-IMSA GTU cars to trickly down to GTU, but that supply dried up many years ago, and now GT-2 is hurting.
GT-2 would not have made minimum levels 2005 if it had not been for the recent inclusion of tub chassis ready made Porsche cup cars.
The GT-2 and GT-3 classes are not healthy, and the rules makers are loosing touch with what the membership wants.

Nihilanthic

Checked on that v6 - its a Duratec-30 V6.

Also, just thumbing through the rules many cars are specifically allowed to get 'approved F.I. kits' so I assume you can turbo them, if I read F.I. properly as "forced induction".

tims

It is very specific in the rulebook. No turbos in GT or the production classes(EP,FP,etc) . F.I. is "Fuel Injection" even though most of the "real" cars listed in these categories had fuel injection as standard equipment we are talking purpose built race cars not modified street cars. SCCA is famous for the dual webber carbs and point ignition race engines. So the performance improvement is let you add fuel injection for a weight penalty. And the SCCA wonders why no one races in the GT categories.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

tims is right, F.I. is fuel injection to SCCA.

bingoboy

I require pictures of this duratec 30 rx7 with 6 itb's. and all related facts.

peacekeeper

Are these people taking off the turbos of the cup cars just so they can race in scca? That seems pretty retarded when you can just go buy one and race with the pca and not have to worry about turbo restrictions.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

The Porsche GT-3 cup car (not to be confused with SCCA GT-3 class) is NOT a turbo engine. It is naturally aspirated 3.8 liter. The Porsce car got the GT-3 name back from LeMans rules several years ago that had these 3 classes: GT-1, GT-2, and GT-3. The GT-3 name stuck, even though essentially the same car now runs in the GT class.

tims

alot of confussion with race cars and street cars. names maybe the same or similair, but the specifications are not. GT class race cars only share the "basic" shape of the street car. for the most part the GT class cars are purpose built for the track only race cars, as is the Porsche GT3 Cup car. the Porsche GT3 road car is a conmpletely different car even though the name sounds similair and the look of the car is similair.