CarmonColvin

I would like to hear from everyone that regularly competes in E-Stock Solo II with their FC. In years past I have either autocrossed in Street Prepared or Prepared category in an FC. Just recently I got back into autocrossing using my daily driver. In my region Miata's and MR-2's fill the field in E-stock so I have good competition but the problem is I am consistantly slower than the rest of the field.

Is a n/a FC outclassed in E-Stock?

I know the driver is 90% of autocrossing but I am not new to this. I started autocrossing back in 1994 and with the exception of 3 years it has been in an RX-7. I finished 19th the Atlanta '03 Rev-it-up and 75th at the Atlanta '04 Rev-it-up. I was also Alabama Rection F-Prepared Solo II Chamption in '02.

I know part of my problem lies in tires. I have been running crappy street tires. Two weeks ago I finished nearly 6 seconds behind a Fiero that was on race tires. In my opinion on that particular course race tires would not of made that big of a difference.

This past weekend was even worse. The results have not been posed to the net but I am certain I finished 6th or 7th out of seven cars in my class. Two MR-2 entries and one of the Miatas were on race tires. But comparing my times to what I heard of the other cars on street tires I was consistanly 4 to 6 seconds slower. The only car I think I beat was an old Porsche 9?? that had seen better days.

So those of you that regularly compete in E-stock what kind of competition do you normally see and how do you normally place?

DamonB

Not my class and this is about an FB but my 2 cents...

In ES the second generation MR2 seems to be the class leader. I see them dominate at all the Divisional and National courses all the time. Here locally we have an excellent FB driver who competes in ES and lately he's been co-driving an MR2. He's always faster in the MR2... IMO the FB and FC both are outclassed by the MR2 in ES.

From watching them on course the MR2 looks more nimble than both an FB and FC ("whiners" need to remember we're talking a stock class here; not many nods allowed). I have not driven any of these cars, just my observations over the past few years.

The rule of thumb on race rubber vs street rubber is 2 seconds for every 30 seconds of course length but having competed at length yourself you already understand how that can be different among cars and courses.

Just yesterday I finished the season in SS on street tires; corded the race tires the day before (they were terrible anyway; hard). Course was not technical IMO but very fast. Z06's I would have expected to be running neck and neck with were turning high 90 second runs on Hoosiers. I turned a 101.1 at the end of the day on full tread Kumho MX street tires (the fast Z06's were in the low 90's on Hoosiers). I think best I could have done was a mid 100 but it took me all day to get the street tires dialed in and drive the car right. Been a few years since I've competed on street tires

I finished 50 something at the Dallas RevItUp and that was with blowing it in one spot. Atlanta was a tough market too I bet.

ZoomZoomH

how's the struts on your FC? still the original ones, or have you replaced with higher-performance ones?

the biggest problem i had when i autox'd the FC in ES is the MASSIVE body roll due to really old (like THIRTEEN YEAR OLD) suspension components, namely worn springs and struts...

CarmonColvin

My FC is nearly perfectly stock, I even run Mazda plug wires and radiator hoses! The exhaust is the only thing I have touched. I have the apex'i N1 Dual cat-back exhaust. Everything else is in good condition but various components have up to to 95k miles on them.

My car seems to have a low speed push but high speed oversteer. I may rotate the front upper strut mount to give the extra camber & caster and I may remove the rear sway bar (that helped my F-prepared car). I should also bump the toe up on the front and rear. Too bad it will be a few months before I can autocross again.

I know the shocks/struts are borderline and should be replaced but if I spend any amount of money on performance items I will go ahead and buy items that are ITS legal (ultimate goal of this car) and I would bump into Street Prepared.

DamonB

Neither of those mods legal in stock. The strut mounts have to be mounted just as from the factory and there are no rear bar mods allowed at all in stock. There was an MR2 successfully protested at nationals this past year for rotating the upper strut mounts. Not legal.

CarmonColvin

I was not aware that the strut mount mod was illegal, although it does not surprise me.

I just consulted an old rule book an realised that it is the front sway bar that is allowed to be changed and not the rear. I had it confused. I may try to locate a T2 front sway bar to use then.

DamonB

That is correct. The front sway bar is free and can be anything you desire as long as it and it's mounts bolt to the factory locations in the factory way. This means aftermarket front mounts are legal if they mount in the factory way (no cross bracing etc). You cannot touch the rear bar (assuming there is one. If there is not you can't add it!).

Slacker7

iTrader: (2)

What kind of tyres do you have? I think I've seen you run before and those tyres you were using looked really tired.
6 seconds would be about 10% faster in a typical course in Birmingham? I went from really crappy street tyres(cooper lifelines) to fairly decent street tyres(es100) and was about 5% faster. A buddy of mine noticed that when he went from es100's to the victoracers he was about 5% faster I'm not trying to say that you will be definitely up to 10% faster but granted that these are just estimates.. I think if you get new struts and max out the stock rules, ie alignment settings, ss brake lines, 5mm spacers, 225 tyres(if you can get it to fit) etc etc.. you might be able to make up that 6 seconds..... Also fwiw the same person corded his race tyres and ran like 2-3 autocrosses on dry-rotted kumho 711's and when he went back to the victoracers and was about 8-9% faster.

I've always been interested to see if the S5 n/a rx7's could be competitive in ES. I mean they are running against the MR2s which have 130hp and weigh about 2700lbs while the S5's have 160hp with 2800lbs granted the MR2 will be more nimble due to it's MR layout, It seems like a fair match on paper.. but I guess this theory is yet to be proven and vehicle dynamics might heavily favor the MR2.

As far as the rules goes.. damn I too have heard stories about ES mr2s and CS miatas being protested badly this past nationals.. I think one of the cars got successfully protested because one of the suspension washers/spacers was installed backwards which gave the car more - camber. And is it true that you can't run you suspension settings out of stock spec tolerances?

Alex

It can be legal if the factory shop manual says you can do it. My 93 Probe manual said to rotate the top mounts to adjust for camber/caster, so it was legal. If the FC manual says you can, then it is legal.

sibleyg

Rotating the top mounts to change camber is not listed in the owner's or tech manual but is in the body service and repair literature that body shops use to get bent cars back in alignment. Not sure that this is adequate literature to support being legal or not.

I too am wondering about this subject. I have a stripper S4 NA that I plan on running in Detroit region. No power anything, no power steering, no A/C. The lightest Rx7 made. Still thinking a decent driver in a Miata with good tires will hand me my head.

RotaryAXer

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, Pat Kernahan will beat you every time he shows. There are other regular ES cars that would be tough to beat also. Jon Armstrong in a 924 is very fast and smooth.

Cwaters

They're also talking about lumping all the later (1.8?) Miatas in ES as well. I certainly wouldn't be planning a ES campaign with the FC platform if you want to win.
With the other FCs and the FB missing from our comptition this year, I've stopped looking at the class leaders and started looking at where I fall in the PAX numbers for the whole day.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I would think the FC is hopelessly outclassed against Miatas and MR2s. Typically stock classes are for newer cars. The Miata has adjustable camber and that can make a HUGE difference in handling. The FC NEEDS some front camber really badly, if you don't have it you can't win.

I don't think FCs are really the car to have in any class, same goes for the FB.

Brent_F

Looking at my PAX numbers I would say that the FB (my car) is not really competative in ES. Granted I an running full depth es-100's but that and my less than great talents are not worth the 8+ secs(raw) I'm off on a 60 second course. I have reason to believe that azenis tires would be worth 2 secs or so I guess that will be my choice for next year.

On the note about 1.8 miatas I hope that dosen't happen cause that would really sink my chances for a class win.