Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

rollcage vs airbag

Old 03-03-03, 02:27 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
rollcage vs airbag

I am some questions about the overall safety of a car. Which system is safer, rollcage with 5 (or 6) point harness or airbag with stock 3 point seatbelt? Here are my thoughts:

If rollcage with racing harness is safer, why not use in the production sports car (this applies to 2 seater only)? Few reasons come into mind: One, 3 inch harness is very uncomfortable and it requires a second person to properly secure the driver/passenger. However, I think one can secure oneself tight enough (I could be wrong). Two, in case of rollover, head injury will be severe (hitting the bar). However, how often does a rollover occur and how much safer is with the airbag system? Although driver/passenger can "duck" with 3 point seatbelt, a properly designed rollcage can probably prevent the roof from collapsing so that the driver/passenger don't need to "duck". Please note that airbags do not deploy during a rollover. I think rollcage with racing harness will provide a much safer environment in an event of front, rear or side collision. In these type of collisions, neck (whiplash), knee and head injury probably won't occur as the driver/passenger is locked onto the seat.

If airbag with 3 point seat belt is safer, why not use them in the race car? Is it too much weight? But, if it is so much safer, why not put it in the rules?

I am sure there are many reasons why manufacturers don't put rollcage and racing harness into production 2 seaters. But, I can't think of any. Any thoughts?

--Joey
NA2TT is offline  
Old 03-03-03, 03:24 PM
  #2  
Death to Infinite Scroll
 
peejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 11,702
Received 43 Likes on 40 Posts
Airbags are not safer. Airbags are designed for a frontal collision in which the driver is unbelted. When they deploy, they deploy only once, and also usually damage everything that it's attached to (steering column/dashboard/your face). It is, in reality, an explosive stuffed into your steering wheel.

Not all collisions are frontal especially in racing. Not all collisions have only one impact especially in racing. Airbags don't hold you securely in your seat under all conditions (neither do 3 point belts) and airbags don't help heep your head from supporting the car in the event of a rollover.
peejay is offline  
Old 03-03-03, 07:00 PM
  #3  
Has been.. hangin' around
10 Year Member
 
Silkworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Human Head = Bone
Rollcage = Steel

Bone < Steel

Lots of ways for a bone head to impact a steel bar when it's 6 inches away. Seats are designed to bend after so much force, a serious rear impact will allow you to fall backwards and hit the bar. A side impact will initially send you inwards, but opposite reaction will then cause your head to fly back and hit the A-pill bar.

5 point harnesses are complicated to use.

5 point harnesses are uncomfortable, therefore more people won't wear their belts, and in a car with a cage, that's even worse.

what about moving in the car, what are you going to do if you drop your hamburger if you're wearing a 5 point? Surely you don't think mom & dad driver are going to not eat, drink, smoke, or use a cell phone in the car?

PaulC
Silkworm is offline  
Old 03-04-03, 09:02 PM
  #4  
Rotary Enthusiast
5 Year Member
 
specRX7_22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
thats why racers are required to wear HELMETS and required to put ROLL BAR PADDING around where the head is.

now the new thing is the Hans device which clips from the back of your helmet to another piece that is strapped on your shoulders with the belts to prevent whiplash. when your strapped tight into a seat by 5 point belts, your body is not going anywhere.

air bags would be an incredibally bad idea in a race car, especially in a road race car. in road racing its normal to bump draft and maybe rear end someone by accident and keep going, no big deal. now what if the air bags went off while doing a common thing like that? big trouble. would cause another accident.

another thing.... many many racers have aftermarket momo, sparco, etc racing steering wheels.
specRX7_22 is offline  
Old 03-04-03, 09:09 PM
  #5  
Rotary Enthusiast
5 Year Member
 
specRX7_22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: rollcage vs airbag

Originally posted by NA2TT
Two, in case of rollover, head injury will be severe (hitting the bar).

(im sorry im posting another post lol).

it would not be severe with a helmet and roll bar padding. and what would the injury be like if the roof collapsed down to the top of the seats in a car w/o a cage? summit point last year... BMW.. exact thing happened at open track with an instructor. lucky they werent killed.
specRX7_22 is offline  
Old 03-04-03, 09:51 PM
  #6  
Junior Member
5 Year Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another thing with the 3point seatbelt as opposed to the 5/6 point.

When i flipped my truck I landed on the roof. luckily the roof didnt come down very far, because i came OUT of my seatbelt. With a 5point you are secure no matter what angle your car is sitting on.
AutoX47 is offline  
Old 03-04-03, 09:55 PM
  #7  
10 lb. boost, 5lb. bag
10 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
5-points are not sold in production cars because of DOT bullshit. Supplimental restraint systems are required by DOT bullshit. This is why some pre-airbag Ferrari's came equipped with shitty 3 point automatic belts instead of proper racing harnesses like they were sold with everywhere else in the world.
Gene is offline  
Old 03-05-03, 04:09 AM
  #8  
Need more sleep
10 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
twokrx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Woodlands TX
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Few thoughts.

It would suck to be in a harness and have the air bag deploy and hit you (I have hit an air bag during a frontal collision, 65mph to 0).

It would also suck to be in a harness with no rollcage, roll the car on its roof, roof collapses and you cannot lean out of the way, head and spinal cord injuries anyone?

Headbutting a roll cage, helmet or no, would suck too.

All of the above is why I haven't installed a roll cage and harnesses as yet. Cage has to be built away from possible contact with the noggin, airbags need to be disabled/removed before donning a harness, cannot move around comfortably with the harness on commute to work, plus the $$$ ... and being lazy
twokrx7 is offline  
Old 03-05-03, 02:59 PM
  #9  
Death to Infinite Scroll
 
peejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 11,702
Received 43 Likes on 40 Posts
Originally posted by twokrx7
Few thoughts.

It would suck to be in a harness and have the air bag deploy and hit you (I have hit an air bag during a frontal collision, 65mph to 0).
Not as bad as when the stock seatbelts stretch to allow you to meet the airbag.

I always wear my seatbelts TIGHT and i was amazed at how much they stretch.

I have a feeling 5-points are not DOT legal for several reasons... first, if they are not worn properly, they can be dangerous. (if the crotch strap is not tight, then the lap belt can get lifted by the shouder straps - this is what killed Jochen Rindt (?) - he never wore his critch strap and the lap belt ended up where his liver used to be)

Second, they have to be positioned specifically for each driver, relative to shoulder height.

Third, in case of an accident, an emergency worker can not simply cut once and remove the belt, they'd have to cut at least 3 of the belts.


It's not BS. There are simply different priorities for a mass production, street driven car vs. a racing car, and the restraint systems are accordingly different.
peejay is offline  
Old 03-06-03, 12:02 AM
  #10  
10 lb. boost, 5lb. bag
10 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by peejay
Not as bad as when the stock seatbelts stretch to allow you to meet the airbag.

I always wear my seatbelts TIGHT and i was amazed at how much they stretch.

I have a feeling 5-points are not DOT legal for several reasons... first, if they are not worn properly, they can be dangerous. (if the crotch strap is not tight, then the lap belt can get lifted by the shouder straps - this is what killed Jochen Rindt (?) - he never wore his critch strap and the lap belt ended up where his liver used to be)

Second, they have to be positioned specifically for each driver, relative to shoulder height.

Third, in case of an accident, an emergency worker can not simply cut once and remove the belt, they'd have to cut at least 3 of the belts.


It's not BS. There are simply different priorities for a mass production, street driven car vs. a racing car, and the restraint systems are accordingly different.
You make some good points, but I figured all that stuff was implied. People are pretty dumb however. My current rig in my T2 with automatic belts is to wear the lap portion of my 5-point combined with with automatic shoulder belt for the street, and to wear the full 5 point when on a track (or sometimes when I'm in really shitty weather and not too confident in my safety) I do have a proper racing seat and a thickly padded rollbar installed as well.
Gene is offline  
Old 03-06-03, 02:16 PM
  #11  
Junior Member
5 Year Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by twokrx7
cannot move around comfortably with the harness on commute to work,
5point messes up a suit less, pluss its quite humorous to see
AutoX47 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: