Beast From The East

I'd planned on using the 'long track' West Penn alignment settings, found here http://westpenn.rx-7.org/Files/FD_Align.html

I'd be using the 17" M2 toe link/Trailing arms settings.

What say the racers of 3rd gens- are these good, bad, indifferent?

Beast From The East

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...rack+checklist

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

If I read your post right, this will be your first time on the track.

Here are some things that I learned that aren't obvious the first time you're out, but you need to know them:
1) Always drive the line. Always. Instructors want to see that you know the line thoroughly. In the beginning, driving off the line is easy because you won't be near the limits of the car. As you approach the limits, you will need to know and drive the line in order to figure out when you're pushing too much or too little. Your goal is to drive consecutive laps within two wheel widths of each other - inches really do count.

2) Head up, way up. What is under your wheels or just in front of you is history. While it feels less comfortable, you'll never develop car control with your head down. When you're entering a turn, you should be looking at track-out, with the apex in your peripheral vision. When you're approaching the apex, you should looking down the track with track-out in your peripheral vision. You get the idea.

3) Always hit the apex, always. I remember the first couple times I didn't time the turn-in right and my instructor laid into me for making a nice clean exit - but not actually hitting the apex. When you're starting out, that's not a mistake since you're not pushing the car hard and you have extra grip to use to take a tighter turn. When you get closer to the limit, missing the apex means you WILL run out of track. It's better to cross up the front wheels a bit and slide off some speed while staying on the line, and learn to do this now rather than later.

Anyway, have fun, and never have an alternate agenda. Do what the instructors tell you - no more, no less. The goal, if you have an innate belief that you'll drive better than the rest for whatever reason - is to do what you're asked to do better and more perfectly than anyone else. The safest way to drive and fastest way to improve is to trust that they want to see you succeed, and anything else that you're worried about is just going to impede your progress.

Dave

SHPNOUT

iTrader: (3)

Mahjik.....Yep that was me. A couple of years ago running with NCRC.

It was a Friday before a Porche club event and open group was truely open....That was my first great day after nearly two years with the car........It ALL came together. And BTW, that day saw a 1:55.5 in the session just before lunch. :-)

Yep, Cam's old race car. ALthough each year it gets a bit newer. This winter saw a shock rebuild and susupension go thru, tie rods and steering rack. Should be tighter then it ever was. First event for me will be the SCCA licensing school in two weeks

A couple of things that my or may not help you for your day. I started with a street/track rx7. Koni singles, GC coils 550/450, trippoint front bar, m2 intake and dp and ecu on CCWs with 275 hoosiers. That was a great dual purpose set up. The settings I ran then and now are Front 1/16th toe out, 2.25 camber on all four corners, and zero toe in the rear. That car was fast. Got it down to a 2:03 full track.

And, BTW, stay wide in five, go inside like me in the video and that's what happens. Did anyone catch the formula ford nearly rolling over in the first lap just after turn five?


Be safe, Have fun.
Niles

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

lol, I was going to ask you what type of car that was.. Good stuff.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Beast,

I use the Pettit Long Track setup which is basically what's in your link above. They are a good setup for a street car which occasionally sees the track.

(scroll down the page)
http://pettitracing.com/rx7/index_information.htm

Beast From The East

This car is similar, but not exactly the same - 93 R1 w/ Ground Control coil-overs (rebuilt recently, I live just a mile from them) with the same spring rates as you started with (I think, I got them over 6 years ago and can't remember), stock sways, Mazdacomp bushings all around and replaced the pillows about 10K miles ago, Urethane diff bushings, KAAZ rear, ACT street/strip clutch w/ 9.5# flywheel (will drive this one until it's munched, then upgrade to Exedy most likely, what do you use?), 95-97 fuel tank with the better baffling, 2 Cosmo fuel pumps, BIG fuel lines (twin garden hoses), 1600/800 injectors with the needed fp regulator, Wolf 3D (running ~ 17 lbs boost), Apexi 3bar MAP sensor, Pettit's cold air intake, M2 medium stockmount i/c, T04S single turbo, dp, mp (resonated), 8.5" front/9.5" rear BBS RG-Rs, and a 13-BRE Cosmo motor (more low end grunt for when I drove it on the street, which I don't do anymore because the constables and I agreed that was bad to do anymore. They were very convincing), Innovate wideband, Defi gauges using the tripod gauge center console mount (oil temp, exhaust temp, and fuel pressure monitored). RX7store engine brace, grounding kit, TII coils, no a/c, Twin Power, Koyo, 103 VP unleaded....a big bucket o' money, if my wife knew the actual amount I'd be dead. Time to use it as God intended. Interesting amount of toe and camber you run....esp toe-out on the front and tons of camber, all more extreme then either Pettit's settings or West Penn. How did you arrive at those settings? When did you go up to 750/650 spring rates and why? (I assume you were bottoming out somewhere...I could get my front lip to rub just canyon driving with the 550s in the front).

To all - I take instruction well. The constant theme I'm hearing is 'drive the line' 'do what the instructor says', and 'stay relaxed, have fun' - and stay wide on 5 . Will do - doesn't make sense to pay all that money then not do what I'm told, does it?

My father just called and he's going to be at PIR driving Time Trials in his new car on the same weekend- C5R clone in Unlimited class. I've got a long way to go to catch him. I really appreciate all the encouragement and advice from the group.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You'd be surprised..... I don't know how many people I've instructed who basically told me they "already know how to drive".

rotoober

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like your father would be your best source of "seat of the pants" knowledge. Does he not live around your area?
Also, back to your first post, I believe Carl sold out and moved to Hawaii last year. I had the pleasure of meeting him a ThunderHill a couple of years back - nice guy and a kick *** driver.
Paul and I got my front seal replaced last weekend, guess it's time for me to get back out there too!

Matt

Beast From The East

My father lives in AZ Phoenix area, while I'm in Sacramento area, and yes, he's a great source - he taught me to drive. He's been egging me on to go to Skip Barber with him for years, but I've devoted my money towards golf (another expensive habit) until now. So, he's gotten ahead of me in race driving (but I'm a much better golfer than he is). He's been telling me the same things you all are - listen to the instructor, don't try to prove anything, learn the line, talk to all the other drivers who are in better run groups, bought me Skips Driving Faster book, happy that I'm starting on street tires instead of going right to race tires, etc. My love of cars is all his fault - he owned the 20th 1st gen in California back when they first came out. Les Driesback, his step-father, taught him. Les was a racer of some repute back in the Golden Age of racing (see this link of race results http://marcell-tc.com/genealogy/rajo.html, also http://www.oilstick.com/rparks/blltnbrd/77.htm and http://www.whowon.com/sResults.asp?S...StoryID=155453, but look for his name spelled Driesbach). I think he's waiting for me to get some seat time before we start talking lots of shop, so he doesn't overwhelm me with information. We influence each other - I'm the first one to 'go nuts' modifying a car, which inspired him to go even more nuts once he got his financial house in order. If he'd taken my investing advice, which was actually his own, he'd have gotten there a lot faster.

Look forward to seeing you at the track, Matt.

tom.jelly

don't forget torque wrench to check the lugnuts, they WILL loosen up. For the stock brakes and 245/45-16 ra-1 I use hawk blues and stock rear pads. watch engine temp closely as that and grip is the only limiting factor (with my car at least)at the track at this point, besides the driver! Also a good idea to do that mod on the oil filler that prevents oil from getting in the wrong place, been so long since I did that that I can't remember, but I THINK i put a small catch bottle in line with the pvc line or something like that. Dunno how that promoter is, but they may check the snell date sticker in your helmet, and you will probably need numbers on the car, bring extras in case someone has the same # Also a tether for your video camera if you have a camera mount, and a remote so you can turn it on and of if it is behind you. tiny inverter permanently mounted and used with the camera wall wart will insure your battery never runs out

Beast From The East

Torque wrench - check, got two of em. Also need to remember to bring the lock on the Gorilla lock lug nuts, or I won't be able to remove the wheels. I have Porterfield's R-4S pads front and rear, fairly new, I hope they will suffice for this first track outing. I'll move up to their full race pad in the next go-around (might actually buy a set and have them standing by....along with Racing Brake's new 2-piece rotors for OEM...I'm kicking myself that I didn't save my old rotors, but I have almost new Brembos on the front so they should be ok for just starting out). Will be watching both water and oil temp closely. Since this is HPDE my M2000 helmet is adequate, and I don't need a catch can (I would need SA2000 and catch can for any of NASA competition classes). As far as numbers, I don't have any vinyl ones - will NASA issue them to me as part of the welcome packet or can I use blue painter's tape to 'create' them in the right size and place? I don't have a camera yet.....yet another item to spend money on <sigh>.

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

You will need to use painter's tape. They don't give you numbers

tom.jelly

I just cut them out of white magnetic sign material. a 6 and a 9 should be sufficient, then you have 99,66 96, 69. I pick 96 or 69 because it looks the same upside down!

t

Beast From The East

Car has passed tech (thank you Joe at his Subaru/Alfa shop) and has fresh alignment to the West Penn specs (thank you Bob at OK Tire in Folsom). Interesting thing is we couldn't get caster to go past 5.2 (specs called for 6) with my suspension setup, but got the other settings to match. My SuperBlue fluid came in the mail today, so this Sunday the car gets fresh oil and a complete brake fluid flush. Will just go with painter's tape (aka poor man's numbering system) to start out. I saw some nice vinyl and magnetic numbering systems in my latest Pegasus catalog - does NASA allow for magnetic or does it need to be afixed via an adhesive? What sources are out there to get the right number sizes?

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

Magnetic is fine, thats what I use.

Beast From The East

Where do you get them (magnetic numbers of correct size)?

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

Go to Tap Plastic and buy some magnetic sheets, then cut out the numbers yourself.

phoenix7

Great Advice from everyone.

2nd gear for turn 5 and just get on the gas without punching it. Start out slow, slowly increase your speed and don't push harder than you know you can handle.

Gadd's video shows a perfect mistake we can all make when not slowing down enough before the turn. I had no sound so I can't tell much more. I just think he panicked and hit the brakes.

Don't hit the brakes in the middle of the turn. I purposely told my wife to tap the brakes and she experienced the same thing, well, she didn't spin out, she just held it together nicely.

Bring water.

rotoober

iTrader: (3)

Paul didn't hit the brakes, he lifted at/near the apex, unbalanced the car and spun. I think this video is from almost two years ago, we had both been to the track maybe 2-3 times. I think he almost calls TH his second home - I'll never be able to catch him now...


Matt

Beast From The East

Well, I didn't get a chance to check my pads this weekend and rather than risk it, I bought a set of Porterfield R-4 race pads front and rear, so that I have backup if my training goes as well as I hope. Anybody have any real world experience with the R-4 race pad?

phoenix7

yeah, lifting is just as bad. I couldn't tell, I thought i saw the tails light up for a sec before the spin out. I loved Thill but it's too far from me.

Gadd

I just got a set to try myself, but I won't be back to THill until the 28th. I love to hear how you get on with them. Have fun!

NASA runs the bypass and it's definitely taken in third.

Your point is well taken, I very common for driver to try and carry too much speed into a corner, 11 and 14 are two good examples of where "slow in fast out" is not just a cute saying.

The spin in the video (not the only time I've spun) is a good demonstration of how many small mistakes lead to a bigger one.

The car was not settled when I turned in.
I missed the apex by a mile.
When I realized I was going to run out of track on exit, I put in more steering to try and stay on the track.
Then I lifted.
Then went both feet in. (the only right thing I did)
What I should have done is straighten the wheel and drove off the track and then slowed the car.


Paul

phoenix7

the bypass, as in no turn 5 and 5A?

You should have seen my wife come in too hot into turn 5 and 5A. Little driver mistake that was fun and scary at the same time.

Beast From The East

What the final headcount for this weekend - who else is going? Silkworm thought he'd be in Group 4 HPDE, and a couple others chimed in...like to know who to look for. I'll be at the Baymont Friday and Saturday night with my crew chief. Red 3rd gen with BBS RG-Rs on a Big Tex trailer pulled by a tan F250.