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Ready for First Road Race Experience at Thunderhill - Advice from locals?

Old 02-14-08, 07:03 PM
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Ready for First Road Race Experience at Thunderhill - Advice from locals?

It's been a looong time - almost two years - since I took my RX off the road for track only. Got the truck, got access to a trailer, and got the storage....I'm now ready to go become a much better driver. So, I registered for HPDE 1 at the March8/9 NASA event at Thunderhill. Starting at the bottom and will work my way up.

I know there are a few locals who prowl here and I'd love advice on what to bring, where to stay, and what to pay attention to. I could have sworn there was a good post a while back with an Excel checklist of things to bring to the track (maybe posted by Damon a long time ago?). Thought it was a sticky but didn't see it in the Sticky section.

All advice welcome, and look forward to seeing any Forum members that might be there (Carl Byck comes to mind....).

Beast
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Old 02-14-08, 07:50 PM
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http://www.norcal-saac.org/ot/otbook.htm#Tutorials

above link is a track tutorial to refresh your memory of the track layout, for those who have not seen this link it is great prep for first timers and seasoned drivers as well, a few of us will be up at T-hill with HOD (hooked on driving.com) as instructors on the 21st of feb, the HOD website has other info you might use..........gotta run so will go further into it later
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Old 02-14-08, 07:51 PM
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NASA is a great organization to run events with.

My check list usually includes:

Tools, Tools, Tools
Jack Stands
Aluminum Racing Jack
Brake Fluid and bleeding stuff
Seafoam DeepCreep
Glass Cleaner
Engine Oil
Premix Oil
Extra Set of Spark Plugs
Full Extra Set of Belts and Hoses
Full Set of Brake Pads
2 spare front brake rotors
1-2 spare rear brake rotors
Tire Gauge
Small Tire Pump/Compressor
Mat for lying down on or flattened cardboard box
gloves
waterless hand cleaner
shop towls
change of clothes
sunscreen
Helmet
water for drinking and energy bars
car numbers or wedding type car paint
cell phone and charger

Along with some other misc stuff...
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Old 02-14-08, 08:11 PM
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Ask for a ride from instructor, try to follow the line that they took. The instructors usually don't push that hard when you are in the car tho, you will need to find your way. Turn 8 is faster then it seems, it looks like you have to slow down a lot, but you will find out that you can push pretty hard. At the end of the day, the instructor will let you follow him around the track, try to follow as much as you can.

I won't be there, but I will probably see you in future NASA events... especially Infineon or Laguna Seca. What car are you driving?
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Old 02-14-08, 08:33 PM
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Justin, the car is 3rd gen single turbo with 13-BRE motor, many many many many mods (1600/800s, Wolf3D, twin fuel pumps, 11 plugs, Koyo, TwinPower, M2 med i/c, T04S, Ground Control coil-overs, Mazdacomp bushings, KAAZ....gah, the list goes on and on). 400 rwhp - I don't plan on using all of it for a long time. I run 103 octane unleaded VP gas. Toyo T-1S tires on 17" BBS RG-Rs and stock brakes with Porterfield upgraded pads. I know I'll need their full race pads as I improve, and will likely need large brake kit as things get faster. I'm not out to set any records, nor do I have any illusions of granduer...I know this car is much faster than I am a driver, and don't have anything to prove. I plan on HPDE for a year and then picking a class, so I can do all my safety mods for class racing over this next winter. Look forward to seeing you. I believe I will be assigned an instructor for HPDE 1...I certainly want one.

RockLobster - fortunately I think I've got most of the stuff on your list, and it's nice for you to organize it. I could have sworn somebody already built a checklist and posted it....I did a search and couldn't find it. I'd add collapsing chairs to that list (I use 'em when going to ALMS at Laguna Seca for Heartattack Hill).

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Old 02-14-08, 09:03 PM
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be prepared for a great time. I always loved racing there!
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Old 02-14-08, 09:29 PM
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I'd urge you to check out "Hooked on driving", both Chuck (ccanepa50) and I coach for them. (We both have 3rd Gens) I've done many NASA events and they are well run, but HOD is way better at teaching the basics. Being fast is just a byproduct of knowing the line and being smooth and the HOD program is tailored to that objective.

http://www.hookedondriving.com/home.cfm


Hope to see you at the track




Paul
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Old 02-14-08, 10:52 PM
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Paul, is there any portability between HOD and NASA? The reason I chose NASA was their pipeline to competative racing (either Time Trials or wheel to wheel).....if HOD can help lead to a NASA competitive license, then I'd consider it.....

Chico's my old stomping ground, btw. Own a few rentals up there now.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:45 AM
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NASA is definitely more oriented toward competitive racing than HOD, it sounds like it is a better match for your goals. I was just trying to get a ride in your car.........

Paul
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Old 02-15-08, 12:04 PM
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A ride in the car is always open to good folks, Paul :-)

What about lodging? I plan on being there for two days - should I use the hotel recommended on the NASA Norcal site, or is there opprotunities for camping at the track and hanging out with other racers?
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Old 02-15-08, 12:07 PM
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Cool deal, I'll probably be at that event doing hpde4, assuming it stops raining a few weekends so I can finish prep.

Rock covered most of the basics, I tend to bring more stuff like zip ties, racers tape, misc electrical wiring and connectors, a bottle of water wetter in case I gotta dump the radiator, upper and lower radiator hoses. When I was racing I'd bring spare parts like alternators, spare starter, spare braided oil lines, battery charger and metal fabrication tools but I don't bother for HPDE

Bring two jackstands and wood boards for them to sit on, T-hill's grouchy about jacks /stands on bare asphalt.

If you're towing, try to get up there the night before and stake a small claim for your trailer and car, otherwise get there as early as possible in the morning.

Turn 1 is very fast, work your way up to speed there, focus on the line to keep yourself out of trouble.

2 is pretty simple, just listen to the instructors.

3 is off camber, and bites a lot of people. If you start to lose it, remember that your gas pedal is your friend, don't lift (don't hammer it, but don't lift) and steer into the slide. If you can catch it you can hold the car and just make a wide line, but if you're more than 20-30* from your normal angle, you're toast, then it's time to get on the brakes and clutch and ride out the spin.

4 is cake if you get 3 right, otherwise slow down or you're going to go wide at the exit.

5 is harder for newer drivers, hell I still have trouble with it. I start 1 car width from the left, point in at the crest of the rise and ride it down. You'll know you've got it right with speed when you feel the car leave the ground a second For now, give this turn a lot of respect

6 is important to get right since it's the start of a big long straight, but it's pretty straightforward. As you learn 5 and get faster there, it's important to recognize your faster speeds entering 6 and give yourself time to get back to the right line.

7 is almost a non corner in the normal track orientation.

Don't be a hero in turn 8, yes it's faster than it looks, but work yourself up to it. Going off track at 8 is a bad bad thing.

The faster you do make 8, the easier it is to keep your speed up going into 9 (although turbos help a lot if you have them LOL) Once you turn in at 9 and head over the top of the hill, the track moves to your left on the other side so watch your angle. I used to use the outhouse as an aim point, don't know if it's still there but I'd expect it is. You'll see what I mean when you go.

10 is banked, you can go in faster than it looks, but it's not huge to get out of that corner with a ton of speed, because you're going to be doing right into 11.

I setup for 11 slower in high horsepower cars like my T/A, but in the RX-7 I early apex it and go right for the first part of the esses. In the T/A I go slow in, start far left and turn all of the esses into a big straight for acceleration. Important to get out of these corners with a lot of speed, that's one hell of a long straight coming

14 is a late apex, there's a concrete patch you want your right tires on. It's a hard one to judge, you're coming into that corner with a shitload of speed, and you want to get out fast to get into 15 with a lot of speed. In my 7 I don't really brake or lift for 15, I just nail the right berm, with the hammer down.

Have a great time, NASA is good people (and a bit cheaper than HOD, 295 for a 1day event, ahhhhh)
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Old 02-15-08, 12:08 PM
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Any of the hotels in willows are OK, book early, the can fill up fast

If you want to camp at the track you can. they don't provide hookups as far as i know but if you bring a tent sleeping bag and a camp stove, you've got no problems at all.
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Old 02-15-08, 01:34 PM
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Silk, I've seen your track videos posted somewhere.....I don't believe I'll be pushing it near as hard as you are in Group 4....if I get in a slide/spin anywhere I'm sure my instructor will take my keys from me :-) As I understand it that sort of behavior is frowned upon, and even more so if you're a noob novice.

I guess I'll call the hotel tonight and get booked for two days (Friday night and Saturday night). I have my car tech slated for 2/22, then I'll get it aligned to the specs on the West Penn site, then start assembling all my supplies, do a complete flush of the brake fluid with high temp stuff, fresh oil, clean my plugs, fill the tank with 103, check the nitrogen charge in my shocks....man, I'm getting excited already! My dad is also excited - his Unlimited car (A C5R clone) is almost done and he's going to be whupping up on some other bad boys down in Arizona....at age 60. I've got a long way to go before I can think about competing with him at Laguna......
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Old 02-15-08, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Beast From The East View Post
A ride in the car is always open to good folks, Paul :-)

What about lodging? I plan on being there for two days - should I use the hotel recommended on the NASA Norcal site, or is there opprotunities for camping at the track and hanging out with other racers?
I've never heard of anyone complaining about the Pheasant Inn (I think it is Best Western). What ever you do, don't stay in Orland - all the places are nasty. If everything is booked, let me know - we've got a place you guys can campout at that's 20 minutes to the track.
Too bad you are not going out today - it's about 70 degrees, no wind and perfect. Thunderhill is a great track with tons of run-off room, if Paul would get off his butt and help me with my front seal, I'd join you guys.

Matt
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Old 02-15-08, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rotoober View Post
If Paul would get off his butt and help me with my front seal, I'd join you guys.

Matt
Ouch. If that's what it takes to get you back on the track..... Whatcha doing this weekend??

Paul

An example of how not to take turn one, filmed from Matt's car.

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Old 02-15-08, 06:19 PM
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Beast,

All you gotta do is check the ego at the door of your car. Get out and talk smack all you want, but when you're out on track, don't worry about who's faster, whos slower, or how good/bad you're doing.

Focus on the next corner. Focus on the corner worker station. Look as far ahead as practical, keep your mind open to potential situations coming. That guy exiting the pits waaaay down at the end of the track is going to be in front of you in a heartbeat, be prepared for it.

Relax your hands, imagine twirling a pencil in your hands, keep your fingers loose. Death grip on the wheel is not going to solve any problem.

Stay hydrated, even if it's not that hot out, you get dehydrated your mind slows down and you lose focus.

Here's a video of a GT 500 getting all that wrong in Group 2 at T-hill in October (don't watch his line, that's thunderhill backwards)

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...t=LastHPDE.flv

Notice he's totally oblivious to the checkered flag waving at the beginning, or to the corner worker at turn 13 giving him a thumbs up.

Matt, did anyone take you to task for almost coming to a stop in the middle of a hot track?
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Old 02-15-08, 08:28 PM
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yeah its group 1, not the 25, worry about learning the right line (or relearning, i might be out there with ya, been forever...), not going fast. learning the car a bit too.

things to bring; my opinion is biased here too. get the car ready ahead of time. oil should be changed, brakes should be bled, etc etc. more important you should have some time on the thing to make sure its working ok BEFORE you're at the track. you're there for the track time, not to wrench on the thing.

so show up in a car that runs ok, and have fun!

oh and ps, set the tire pressure HOT, too much psi = squirrely.
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Old 02-15-08, 08:36 PM
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Ego check....no problem. I've got a real aversion to stupidity, and I like living. I also drive high in my steering as a habit. I also don't want to bring home a car in the condition of the GT500. Am I to understand that he was driving full out on the checkered flag cool down lap? In HPDE 2, not even 3 or 4? HPDE skill level 1 going HPDE 4/Time Trial speeds = bad combo. Didn't he wonder why everyone else was going so slow? That is a nasty off-camber elevation change he lost it in....since he was going backwards (llihrednuhT) I assume that was turn 6 to 5?

Also, while it was nice of Matt to slow down when that TA spun, aren't we not supposed to do that? Aren't we just to keep going, so as to not cause a pile up, and instead follow the lead of the corner workers and their flags?

Man, the 'after' pictures of the GT500 are sad to look at.....if I did that to the Beast, I'd be heartbroken.....but I do realize there is risk in this venture. Given some of the things I've done on less than track controlled conditions, I'm hoping to keep the shiny side up! (or in my car, the faded side - my paint blows).

I've got lodging with my crew chief Friday and Saturday night at the Baymont Inn - looks like it is only 10 or 15 minutes away. Damn, I'm so excited!

J9fds - I am actually taking Friday off the day before to do final checks on the car, and will do oil, clean plugs, breaks, and complete fluid flushes the weekend before. Unfortunately it is not street legal nor plated for the street, so there's no way for me to shake the car out - I start it, bring it up to temp, and then shut it down. As far as tire pressure, these tires were used by Cam Worth when he raced his RX7 at Laguna Seca about 4 years ago, and I think they found that 36psi was the best. Unfortunately even using nitrogen they still couldn't hold it at 36, the tires just kept getting warmer and warmer and all the cars were defintely getting greasy. He got smacked by Boris Said in his Mustang on turn one. What psi do other third gen guys run? I do want to try the 'white shoe polish' technique on my sidewalls to see what sort of sidewall roll I get.

Oh, and I LOVE the way you guys did on-track front clip straightening....that's very clever....2 4-wheel drives and a couple of tow straps....what can those guys with fancy frame machines do that you can't?

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Old 02-15-08, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Beast From The East View Post
when that TA spun, !
What's a TA??


Paul
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Old 02-15-08, 08:55 PM
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Wasn't that a red Trans Am that passed you ,then spun?
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Old 02-15-08, 09:09 PM
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LOL... I thought it was some comment about me running out of talent, but now I really offended.

Paul

BTW, Matt was totally aware of the lack of traffic behind us, and he did not come to a stop.
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Old 02-15-08, 10:57 PM
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Here's another vid........ Again, as other have said.....speed will come.. Stay loose and have fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8OpT-e0zmc
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Old 02-16-08, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Beast From The East View Post
Ego check....no problem. I've got a real aversion to stupidity, and I like living. I also drive high in my steering as a habit. I also don't want to bring home a car in the condition of the GT500. Am I to understand that he was driving full out on the checkered flag cool down lap? In HPDE 2, not even 3 or 4? HPDE skill level 1 going HPDE 4/Time Trial speeds = bad combo. Didn't he wonder why everyone else was going so slow? That is a nasty off-camber elevation change he lost it in....since he was going backwards (llihrednuhT) I assume that was turn 6 to 5?

Also, while it was nice of Matt to slow down when that TA spun, aren't we not supposed to do that? Aren't we just to keep going, so as to not cause a pile up, and instead follow the lead of the corner workers and their flags?

Man, the 'after' pictures of the GT500 are sad to look at.....if I did that to the Beast, I'd be heartbroken.....but I do realize there is risk in this venture. Given some of the things I've done on less than track controlled conditions, I'm hoping to keep the shiny side up! (or in my car, the faded side - my paint blows).

I've got lodging with my crew chief Friday and Saturday night at the Baymont Inn - looks like it is only 10 or 15 minutes away. Damn, I'm so excited!

J9fds - I am actually taking Friday off the day before to do final checks on the car, and will do oil, clean plugs, breaks, and complete fluid flushes the weekend before. Unfortunately it is not street legal nor plated for the street, so there's no way for me to shake the car out - I start it, bring it up to temp, and then shut it down. As far as tire pressure, these tires were used by Cam Worth when he raced his RX7 at Laguna Seca about 4 years ago, and I think they found that 36psi was the best. Unfortunately even using nitrogen they still couldn't hold it at 36, the tires just kept getting warmer and warmer and all the cars were defintely getting greasy. He got smacked by Boris Said in his Mustang on turn one. What psi do other third gen guys run? I do want to try the 'white shoe polish' technique on my sidewalls to see what sort of sidewall roll I get.

Oh, and I LOVE the way you guys did on-track front clip straightening....that's very clever....2 4-wheel drives and a couple of tow straps....what can those guys with fancy frame machines do that you can't?
if you see a wreck, its prolly good to slow down, there may be stuff on the track, you dont want to stop unless there something wrong with your car, or they flag you down.

yeah that worked to straighten the frame, but it was kinda scary, and we did break the tie strap
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Old 02-17-08, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SHPNOUT View Post
Here's another vid........ Again, as other have said.....speed will come.. Stay loose and have fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8OpT-e0zmc
Hey SHPNOUT,

Is that you? Damn nice video!
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Old 02-18-08, 03:08 PM
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Based on some research on Niles' (SHPNOUT) posts, I would say that is him, and that he is a very, very good driver with exceptionally steely *********. I counted time mark :18 on the video when the main tower passed out of view on his right during the first go-round, then saw it pass again at 2:17...that's a 1.59 run.....very impressive. The grip on those Hoosiers is amazing....and I think he's running 750/650 spring rates based on other posts. I'll be running 650/550's, and just Toyo T-1s, so if I can do anything under 3.00 I'll be happy.....but I now have the right video to watch for the line, thanks to him - same car, same track...love how he caught himself off of 5 as he was chasing that white Cup car....I'd have soiled myself, it looked like he was right on the edge of losing it. Niles, what group was that, a NASA event of a one off? Didn't seem like it was a race class based on the mix of cars, and since you were passing everywhere I'm assuming is was Level 4 in skill. Is that Cam's old car? That is awful fast running with the twins still.....I'd love to see what you could do with a medium to big sized single turbo engine, properly tuned and fueled.

I've got lodging at the Baymont Inn for Friday and Saturday nights, my crew chief lined up, and 4 liters of ATP Super Blue on the way. Tech is this Friday. BTW - what tech shops are folks using in the Sac area for NASA? I'm in Cameron Park and Ground Control doesn't do it any more, the other guy (REC Racing) appears to be out of business. I have to head all the way over to Joe's Subaru and Alfas across town. Sort of a PITA.

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