ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Do not compare your car to Jeff's ex BP RX7, different class and different mods, forget about it. The SM2 cars are what you need to copy, Beth and Andy's cars are the only ones you need to look at.

If you call Mazda and let them know you have done one event and when you plan to do the next one they will take care of you.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

By the way, CSM (California Street Mod) is a local "run what ya brung" class in the Los Angeles region, for cars that don't fit well in other categories. From what I remember, the only major rule is that you've got to run street tires, not race slicks.

The cars in that class are usually an odd group of cars that are over-prepared for other classes: turbocharged Datsun Z's, supercharged Honda Civics, a supercharged Miata, a 1967 Sunbeam Tiger, and there was a 93 RX-7 in the class as well. Other cars in CSM included a 99 Corvette and a 2006 Evo9.

-s-

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Actually I was hoping U’ll_Lose would have been there on practice day but I was told no instructor requests on practice day, only race day because the instructors wouldn’t want to loose seat time.

Yes I could out drive the CRX but the RX7 outhandles me ...for now.


Hmm, Hikaru is in my class Avg’d 70. I can’t believe that Supra got below 70 it looked so incredibly slow. I can’t find the Z06, don’t know his name but didn’t see any 60 Z06 times, so not sure of his class. Yeah, I go there to have fun but like Donald Duck in the drivers ed cartoon I change behind the wheel and get competitive. I only used Jeff Keisel as an example because we both spent $70k on our cars (including car itself) but look at his compare to mine.

Yeah, what I was told by all the company’s that have equal rates is it’s all in the damping. I can make the rear bounce on soft but can not budge the front on hard. I would prefer 8/6kg or at least 10/8kg, so that may be something I can change.

Let me rephrase as you didn't read my othe thread where I praised you

I didn't get what I wanted, which was how to read the cones or as much time as I needed to learn with only "one" lap. I know I could have learned more and I did appreciate the help as I told you on the track. Anything else you said prolly went out the other ear (my fault). I couldn't see the pointer cones but learned in practice there are entry and exit double cones, so now I look for those instead and stay on course. I still don't know how to read the pointer or apex cones though. I also did ask for you on saturday and would have again on sunday but didn't get to race.

My battery is fine but not up to code, so that's why I let it go and let them fail me. I allready missed my class anyhow because I looked at the previous race schedule by mistake. The first guy was going to pass me just as the others did because the battery does not move and you can't pull it out either, they tried. If you held the car upside and shook it, it won't fall out. It is secured in the bin well. It just is not secured to the metal body nor in ametal box (as per rules). The guy that failed me asked me to get a bungee cord to go over the top and I would pass, wtf?

LMAO, that was a good reply. thanks.

They aren't the only ones. All that have equal rates said the same thing. "It's all in the damping". Rotary Extreme was able to special order their Buddy Clubs in 10/8kg though.

Well that's easy, my driving can change as well as anything else on the car. Also, if there is something on the car that would be better for my style or if it's only my style or techniq then I found out here as you pointed out, right? I've only done one even and one practice session. I'm not expecting to be within 3 seconds of someone that has been racing for 15 years (I think he said).

The only reason I compared with his car is because in the magazine article it states he spent $70k (including car) which is exactly the same as I spent. Now compare the two cars and who got a better deal? I know he did the roll cage himself and i've wanted to learn welding so I don't have to rely on fabricators ripping me off. I'm trying to learn the engine as best as I can, so I don't have to rely on mechanics either

Looking at the schedule I beleive she was going to let me run is CSP. I don't see CSM listed. WOuld I still be is SM2 with slicks?

Well thanks for all the replies. I feel better now.

wlfpkrcn

I don't see how spending 70k means much of anything. It may take cubic dollars to win, but just because you spend it doesn't mean you will win. Sounds like you need waaaaaay more seat time before changing anything on the car

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

How much someone spent, or said in a story that they spent is really stupid way to compare cars. btw talk to Jeff some time about how much stuff those guys got wrong in that story. Again Jeffs car is a purpose built race car for BP, your car is nothing like that. You need to look at the solo rules and figure out what class you want to run in. Cars are not classed by how much money you spent, it is by the type of mods. Your car is not legal in CSP, that is for Miatas and CRXs. A stock FD is in SS. One with suspension mods, big wheels and tires is in ASP. Single turbo, 3 rotor etc in SM2. All of those classes allow DOT race tires, which is the thing you see on cars at the events and mistake for slicks. If you want to gut your car, have a tube frame and run real slicks you are in XP or EM.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

You guys are misunderstanding me with the money thing. It simple really, with the same amount of money he completed his car but mine is no where near complete and will cost more. Make sense now? I never said money will make me go faster. I did say the only reason I compared out two cars is money spent. I don't want a track only car. That was never my intention. I will have A/C back in no matter what the cost or weight dissadvantage. I never said anything about being classed by money. The only reason other classes were brought up was because my class was 1st on sunday. I read the previous event schedule and thought it was 4th after lunch. They tried to help me by running in another class. Sure I wanted points but I thought I needed both races for Mazdacomp. I called them and they let me in with the first race even though I couldn't race the 2nd, so i'm good.

Sure I could have easily mistaken the tires on the Z06 but I saw no tread lines, they looked like slicks to me. They could have been worn down DOT. I didn't go up to the car and read them or ask the driver. I hadn't planned on running slicks, it was just a question.

Whats the deal with comparing my car with Jeff's? I don't get it. His car is complete and looks and performs well. Mine is not complete, does not look good and does not perform well. I have an oil leak and have to fill it with water every day. I picked my car up with the clutch not adjusted, low oil, low water, etc. We both went through two engines and changed setups allong the way. We both spent the same amount of money. ...ALOT of money! I have a right to be frusted and pissed about it. I have no intentions of converting my street car in to a race only car. The comparison is money only. One car completed and one car not.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Like I said, don't sweat it. Jeff Kiesel, Andy McKee, and Erik Strelnieks have a lot of experience building autocross cars. Their RX-7's are NOT the first racecars they've built. They were all beginners once.


You might want to talk to the guy who drives the brown Supra, his name is Aaron and he won BSP on Sunday. He's been autocrossing for a year or two, and his car was very loose and difficult to drive when he started. Like you, he had a single turbo making lots of power. In addition to becoming comfortable looking at cones, he's made a few changes that have made his car easier to drive fast, and some changes that made the car easier to drive.



-s-

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I guess you just dont get it.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

^ are you serious? ...you're joking right? ...pulling my leg? ...messing with me for fun?

OK, since i'm offending by comparing my ride with Jeffs. ...
Turbo Magazine May 2007
Street built RX7
$70k spent
car is complete. car is finished. body kit installed and painted. stereo complete.

He didn't start with a $30k 3-rotor and convert to a 2 rotor like (censored) did. No racing experience mentioned. Same turbo as mine. Same money spent as me. My car is not complete. My engine is not finished. My stereo hasn't been redone and not complete. My A/C is not done. Now i'm not offending by comparing myself to a legend or to a fully prepped race car compared to my street car.

There's no reason to keep explaining the same thing over and over. If you still don't understand you never will. If you are still pissed off at me after I appoliged and mentioned I praised you in my other thread, then so be it.

Thanks Scotty, you've been alot of help with me getting started in this and is much appreciated!

I beleive I rode aith Aaron on Sat. Is he a skinny soft spoken guy? He talked me through a run and helped me with my line and told me to brake alot sooner. A very nice guy. I had a kid ride with me as well. He wanted to ride in a rotary. Hey, I was a kid once to so ovcourse I said yes. I told him to ask the Ferrari or the Z06 since they had the fastest times that I saw. He rode with the Z06 guy. He was trash talking the Ferrari guy (politely teasing). That was the last ride along he did. I bet his stomach got queezy "lol".

wlfpkrcn

Yes, it makes sense now. He started off building a class specific car with a budget and a plan. You started off by throwing gobs of money at the car. You expect it to perform the same because you have an equal amount invested. You need need to reevaluate yourself and your program. You first need to understand how to drive. You need to understand vehicle dynamics (what the car is doing and why) You need to be able to compensate for the vehicles weak points. Then go home and fix them so they become strong points. You cannot learn chassis setup up overnight or online. It takes years of experience and time. You need to come up with a R&D plan. Make one change at a time and learn about it. You need to build a car that is safe to drive at the limit. If tech tells you the battery is not installed correctly, don't show up at the next event with the battery holddown in the same condition. Your safe and race safe are two different things. From the sounds of it the best thing for you to do is buy a Miata for a couple grand. Race it in stock config to learn how to drive. Slowly make changes and learn. After a couple years take on your current car. By then you should be done throwing money away try to compensate for your talent. If you think I'm picking on you or I'm way off base, maybe you should take up ping pong. I hear you can get a really nice paddle for 70k.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

That sounds like Aaron. I really wanted to be at this weekend's event, but there's a big deadline at work so I don't have as much time as I'd like to lately. I had to take care of other things. Hopefully I'll see you at next month's race.

-s-

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I am not pissed, I could care less what you thought of the ride you took. I was trying to explain how the classes work with mods and you do not get it. When I say your car is not in the same class I am not saying it is a POS, they are in different race classes. It seems no matter how many people try to explain it to you it just does not sink in.



Good luck.

HedgeHog

That's what I heard but emprical data sez otherwise. I ran with 26-28psi but it was not working. I bumped it up to 38 and took 1.5s off. I did drive more aggressively with the higher pressure...but that's only cuz I was able to after the increase in pressure. It felt too sloppy w/ the low pressure. Mebbe it's our concrete runway...mebbe it's our cooler temps up north...dunno.

HedgeHog

GoRacer: This prolly has been said many times before in other forums and other threads....best mod for the money: Driving School! Take Evolution 1 and 2. I had the privilege of Ron Bauer instructing me. That day, same car, same layout...3.5seconds improvement...zero adjustments on car...all on the nut holding the steering wheel

Oh, and I concur w/ the masses...don't compare cost invested. It's how you spent and where per the class you're running. SM/SM2 will always be a spendy class but it's still smart spending to max out the performance. I've spent enough including car to pay off a 997GT3 and it's still nowhere close to the leaders (sucky driver notwithstanding).

SPICcnmGT

Let me start by saying I'm with Damon again on I run 28-30lbs in my Hoosiers. I also ran about the same last year in my RA-1s which I found I gained over 3sec on a 85sec course, which we have once a year as a special event, by droping the pressure from about 35-36 to 28-29. I did try dropping it more but it started feeling sloppy.

Now from what I get you say you have AutoX'd your CRX and are better in it. If so why haven't you tried to learn to read the course with that car?? How were you faster in it but you can't really read the course??

Also top dot legal autoX tires(V710s, Hoosiers) Look like slicks except for they have 2 groves around the tire that slicks don't have. But any Dot AutoX tire when worn down far enough will show no signs of any groves.

My suggestion is to do like everyone else says and work on the driver. You say you were 15sec behind another driver in your on car?? When you gain those 15sec then start worring about making the car faster, comparing your times to other REGULAR drivers(as in comes to 90% of the events) is the easiest way to tell improvement. Above all DO NOT buy true AutoX tires until you learn the feel of the car, they do not give you the feed back like a street tire does. They make no noise, and they go from full grip to sliding without much of a sign, especially if you aren't use to them.

DamonB

It definitely feels "sloppy" and steering response is slower but grip is better at the lower pressure. It took me some time to adjust. I didn't like it at first either but stuck with it. In the end I'm running 29 psi in the front and 26 or 27 in the rear.

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=140

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=144

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

My budget is allot lower than $70k, and I think I'm pretty close to being competitive in my region. I ran my first year in Solo on crappy street tires, and some time later, I figured out how I could take advantage of the lower grip to "slip" around pylons.

Of course, nothing can replace good ol' R-compounds, but I wanted to make sure I was comfortable racing first. Once you calm down behind the wheel, you'll take off 5 of those 18 seconds = $0 mod.

Oh yeah, I need to "paint" the tires...

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

One more thing, try having someone else who is faster than you drive your car.

Then you'll have a better understanding on where your vehicle stands.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Wow, it's so simple but no one gets it. I only compared money, that's it! I never said my car should be in BSP because of what I spent. My car was purpose built - street built! I made another comparison to another street built car same money spent, did anyone read that? I was only make a point of me being upset from being ripped off so many ******* times, damn!. If you read Jeff's magazine article he mentions the same thing (duh), which is why he finished his car himself. Oh my I compared myself with Jeff again. I must think I should race like him now. wtf

I spent X amount of money. it doesnt matter if it was a penny. Two other people spent the same. One of them is a track car one is a street car. Both of their cars are complete. mine is not. I now have 6.7:1 compression on another brand new rebuild from Mazdatrix. Oil pan is leaking like crazy, etc. Now anyone get it? ovcorse not, so nevermind.

Tech's never told me my battery did not pass they passed me first and second time. there is nothing wrong with my battery. it is secured. it does not move. you can not even remove it. the 3rd tech person tried to remove it and could not. One of the techs said it was passable but the other one there said it's not according to rules even though its passable. it should be in a metal box or attached to the car body but he was willing to pass me if I used a bungees cord.

I don't know what the deal is. You guys are taking me completely wrong and judging me as a stuck up *** that thinks he can buy his way to the finish line or something. wtf is up with that? I was not bragging about money, i'm ******* PISSED! that's my point. I don't give a crap about being in BSP. I never compared myself to Jeff or the RX8 driver. The only reasons I mentioned the 60 second track times was because they were the fastest but neither is in my class. The fastest in my class I think was Hikaru at 70 and I did 78 with my shitty driving.

I have only done two sessions: One race day and one track day. Both days passed my battery with no problem. I even had a sticker for the 3rd day. I didn't even have to go to tech but I did, i'm not an ******* as you people are percieving. I played by the rules and went to tech every single time.

I have not raced cars legally before. I have only had one race. I have canyon raced my MR2 and CRX as well as drag raced my RX7. None of those have been legal sanctioned racing. I also raced motorcycles street GSXR750 and dirt 125 and have steel holding my spine together, road rash on my arm and a cut on my face.

rynberg

1. You are running shitty tires.
2. You are running equal spring rates. A few of us in the suspension forum have been preaching against this for YEARS. It balances the car too far towards oversteer.
3. You are running a larger slightly laggy single turbo.

Even if you were a really good driver, I doubt you would be anywhere near competitive, just given those three factors. But as with the others, you just need more seat time with your car.

DamonB

With an 18 second gap you shouldn't even be discussing the car. A man on a bicycle could close that gap. That's not rude, that's the truth.

Good news is that the driver is much cheaper and easier to make fast. If the car has gas in it and isn't falling apart then you're done with the car for now. Work on the driver. Nothing else matters much.

SPICcnmGT

I just want to let you know the classes for the FD are:

SS
ASP
SM2
and I think BP and maybe some other mod class.

Also in all honesty canyon running or drag racing doesn't help you hardly any at all on a an AutoX course. Really the only thing to help on an AutoX course is an AutoX course.

It's been said a good AutoX driver makes a good road course driver, but a good road course driver doesn't make a good autoX driver. My uncle can attest to that from when he raced 20+yrs ago. He won his class nationally on the track but will tell you he was never any good at AutoXing. Just practice that is the best you can do.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

On a related note, last weekend I brought my FD to a local Lotus club fun run through some twisty roads.

One of the older guys there was bagging on my car in an offhand way, saying "Yeah, my elise is classed above the RX-7 in SCCA. That's an old car, no one races those anymore."

Needless to say, I was pretty floored. I don't know much about auto-x classing, but I told him I was pretty sure the elise and FD were classed the same, and that numerous modified FDs won their national classes last year.....

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

About that in an unrelated way. I saw a guy with a 2 foot long smoke stained beard on the second latest episode of Hot Version. Appraently they modifiy Elise's, well this guy has A048's and a supercharged Honda ITR motor in it. His lap time was 1'01 and was only beat by the Mine's Skyline at 1'00 it romped a modified Porsche 911turbo 1'04 and many other "fast" cars.

SPICcnmGT

Must not have been much of a car guy, more like an old guy in a cheap exotic that thought he new everything. Most true car guys love FD's from what I've found, and know that they are at the least a pretty quick car. They just don't have a v-8 so most don't want one.

It's hard to get in much higher stock, street prepared, or street mod class than the FD since they don't go any higher.