Lifespan of a Tracked 13 BREW
10-31-19, 11:46 AM
#26
From experience, about how many 40 minute races could someone expect to get out of a forced inducted 13B engine before a rebuild is required? 15 (10 hrs), 30 (20 hrs), 50 (33 hrs), more, less?
If the range is 10 hrs - 60 hrs depending on _________, then those factors do significantly affect lifespan and no generalization can be made.
Nice vids on this post BTW.
Last edited by TomU; 10-31-19 at 11:50 AM.
10-31-19, 11:58 AM
#28
Over here at least, anyone serious would laugh at the prospect of an LS, except for production classes....racing iron blocks were made for a reason they say.
Rules here are 1.8 times displacement for rotary plus a further 1.7 for turbo, except the one where the 20Bs are deemed eligible - and they end up with a 1.75 multiplier to keep under a 6 litre maximum displacement rule.
Truthfully, I'd be surprised if many good v8s would lose out to any rotary out of corners or off the start line, short of burning it all up in wheelspin, no matter the turbo.
10-31-19, 01:04 PM
#29
True! Also factors are oil and water (type and temps), air temps, induction pressure. But in general....
From experience, about how many 40 minute races could someone expect to get out of a forced inducted 13B engine before a rebuild is required? 15 (10 hrs), 30 (20 hrs), 50 (33 hrs), more, less?
If the range is 10 hrs - 60 hrs depending on _________, then those factors do significantly affect lifespan and no generalization can be made.
Nice vids on this post BTW.
From experience, about how many 40 minute races could someone expect to get out of a forced inducted 13B engine before a rebuild is required? 15 (10 hrs), 30 (20 hrs), 50 (33 hrs), more, less?
If the range is 10 hrs - 60 hrs depending on _________, then those factors do significantly affect lifespan and no generalization can be made.
Nice vids on this post BTW.
For the people I work with 30, roughly once a year if they're racing monthly with 2 practices, 2 qualifyings, and 2 races a weekend (one or two months off, and those qualifyings are 15 minutes, practices are 5-10 on hard throttle). Generally soft seals are the only thing replaced, then side seal springs, then side seals, then bearings. I use ceramics so the apex seals and other hard parts last for years.
10-31-19, 01:07 PM
#30
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,826
Received 2,592 Likes
on
1,841 Posts
From experience, about how many 40 minute races could someone expect to get out of a forced inducted 13B engine before a rebuild is required? 15 (10 hrs), 30 (20 hrs), 50 (33 hrs), more, less?
If the range is 10 hrs - 60 hrs depending on _________, then those factors do significantly affect lifespan and no generalization can be made.
Nice vids on this post BTW.
If the range is 10 hrs - 60 hrs depending on _________, then those factors do significantly affect lifespan and no generalization can be made.
Nice vids on this post BTW.
BTW a whole season of drag racing is like 15 minutes of run time, so its radically different.
and BTW 2, one of those 25's we had nothing but engine trouble and the guy next to us was running an NA FC, and that thing ran the whole time with no real trouble... (Mazda used to run the Rx8's too, and except for the one that blew an oil cooler line, they just ran like Seiko's the whole time)
10-31-19, 07:22 PM
#31
My experiences are similar to Wouter's. I've gotten 2 years of abusive racing out of a 13BREW single turbo setup. That's 7 to 8 race weekends a season with each weekend being two 30-35 minute races, two 20 minute qualifying sessions, and one 20 minute practice session. So that's about 30 hours plus a couple of test days in there and some dyno time. My 13BREWs have been mild street ported with OEM apex seals and a mix of OEM bearings and race bearings. My rev limiter is set to 8000 RPM.
With the 12A bridgeport in my GT3 car, I usually have it refreshed after 10 races. This mainly is to replace the side seals and do a general once over. This motor runs ceramic apex seals and I set the rev limiter to 9500-9600 RPM; max power is at 9200 RPM. I have run one of these motors to 10,000 RPM regularly over the course of a long weekend of racing; things just wear out more quickly at these RPMs.
Guy
With the 12A bridgeport in my GT3 car, I usually have it refreshed after 10 races. This mainly is to replace the side seals and do a general once over. This motor runs ceramic apex seals and I set the rev limiter to 9500-9600 RPM; max power is at 9200 RPM. I have run one of these motors to 10,000 RPM regularly over the course of a long weekend of racing; things just wear out more quickly at these RPMs.
Guy
11-01-19, 09:52 AM
#33
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,826
Received 2,592 Likes
on
1,841 Posts
we had another one just detonate itself to death (the tuner advanced the timing, and it didn't add power, so he just left it = boom), it also split the block, head was savable, but barely.
and then the Miata engines are ridiculous, its like $7000 for a rebuilt one now.
11-01-19, 12:38 PM
#35
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,826
Received 2,592 Likes
on
1,841 Posts
true! but if you want a spec miata that does 103rwhp vs 102 rwhp, it costs $$$.
in an odd quirk the Skyaktiv program was a remodel of the factory, and they do not have any Miata engine parts like heads and blocks anymore. the quirk is that the rotary engine factory didn't get touched, so they can still make new REW's...
in an odd quirk the Skyaktiv program was a remodel of the factory, and they do not have any Miata engine parts like heads and blocks anymore. the quirk is that the rotary engine factory didn't get touched, so they can still make new REW's...
11-01-19, 01:03 PM
#36
While I always say having an A and a B engine is a good bet this isn't COMPLETELY true. The rebuilds I'm speaking of take half a day and are more of a health check/reclearance of a few parts and a soft seal replacement. It takes far longer to remove and reinstall on a street/track car. On a real race car they take about the same amount of time (the building vs removal and reinstalling that is).
11-05-19, 02:19 PM
#37
Rotary Freak
The serious 6 litre cars usually run in a sprint format series, with 20 minute races. Just the other day, this popped up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i18U...cCAcshVUH_qG5s
don't know the guy or the competition, which is a State championship, but he seems to be running OK with the chevs at this level. The National championship for this class is dominated by the V8s, last guy who tried with a turbo bridgeport 20b and was a handy steerer, did run several seasons, but not a huge amount of success, budget usually being a much greater determining factor at that level.
11-11-19, 02:28 PM
#38
I built my own SM engine for use in regional races for under $2k including machining costs. Dyno'ed 118 rwhp. I don't have the patience, time or money to race nationally. Regional motors are still a bit expensive but can be had for $3-5k depending on options.
Last edited by gracer7-rx7; 02-06-20 at 01:46 PM.
01-27-20, 01:54 AM
#39
i have about 40 track hrs on my FD, about 30k miles total so far, still going strong. making 300whp, mostly 20 min sessions, and a few 2hr sessions. interesting to note just about all of my piston race friends have gone through at least one engine in the same time. i also race two other piston cars, a subaru and a dsm, not the best examples, but both have not lasted more than 25 track hrs without spinning a bearing
01-31-20, 10:03 AM
#44
If you are warping seals you have a heat issue. I would look into your egts and intake temps. Most aftermarket seals like RX Parts are designed to warp before breaking and sparing the engine internals. Stock seals will break with that kind of abuse. That being said, we have logged over 10k miles and 2 dozen track events at the 500hp level a decade ago with RX Parts seals.
The following users liked this post:
gracer7-rx7 (02-06-20)
02-19-20, 01:04 PM
#45
Just heard from another one of my customers who frequently tracks his fd. Setup consists of a ported motor with RX Parts seals, EFR 8374, HKS Vmount, and Power FC. He has about 20k miles on the motor, with about 10k of that being track miles. He frequently runs up to 30lbs of boost on 98ron and meth injection. I have found that running too hot/too lean will warp any of the aftermarket hardened seals. However, abusing a stock seal similarly will result in breakage.
10-05-20, 03:28 PM
#46
Junior Member
I have seen several pro turbo cars drift/ road coarse holding strong compression after 3 years of abuse. Inadequate cooling/ ducting and too small of an exhaust housing on your turbo is often culprit. Seems like a rebuild to check tolerances every 30-40,000 is not a bad idea for an engine that lives at high rpm.
10-05-20, 05:39 PM
#48
Unfortunately. IRP finally got around tearing down my motor and said it's trashed. Don't have pictures yet, so don't know the extent. I thought it was warped seals, but it may have been my AI washing away all my combustion chamber lubrication. I had an externally fed OMP + 1 oz/gal pre-mix, but the AI (50/50, 500cc nozzle, opening at 7 psi) may have washed it away.
10-06-20, 07:27 AM
#49
Ban Peak
iTrader: (49)
Unfortunately. IRP finally got around tearing down my motor and said it's trashed. Don't have pictures yet, so don't know the extent. I thought it was warped seals, but it may have been my AI washing away all my combustion chamber lubrication. I had an externally fed OMP + 1 oz/gal pre-mix, but the AI (50/50, 500cc nozzle, opening at 7 psi) may have washed it away.
Very interesting. Are you planning on making any changes to the injection going forward?
The following users liked this post:
Molotovman (10-06-20)