donsmith

Nothing is set in stone with the SEB, they make class changes throughout the season, and their "official" policy is not to set classifications until after the Solo and Pro Solo championships in September.
You can add my name to the list, as I tilt at the Z06 windmills on a regular basis in the Reno Region of SCCA, and let's just inundate the SEB with mail; the squeakiest wheels get the most grease.

Don Smith
SCCA member # 284145
SS # 66

streldoc

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, we are battling the current mindset of the members of the SEB. They have the idea that the RX7 would become the car to have again in this class, and that it is a rare car compared to the other cars in the the class. This is true, it is a somewhat more rare car, as there were only 2600 R models available in the US from '93-95, and I'm sure many are wrecked or modified. Is it the best car for the class? I don't think so, one of the best, yes. Mazda had the best contingency for the class in the years it competed, and still does. That resulted in putting the best drivers in the RX7 vs the Corvette's for the time they competed. I think it needs to be conveyed that the last years that the C5 (non-Z06) and the Boxster S competed at Nationals, that the RX7 was not the winner. I never beat Rob Faulkner in his Boxster S!!! The C5 won the 2000 championship with the Boxter is 2nd and the RX7's in 3rd and below. These facts need to be restated with these letters, as what is remembered is all the Championships the RX7 won from 1992-1999.
Also, the SEB does not change classing midyear. It looks at the input from the members during the year prior to changes, so keep writing letters, and beating down the resistance to this move. Better yet, run for an SEB position.

karm

So Dr, just curious since you have been successfull with both cars, how do you compare the two? How difficult is it to go fast in the RX7 vs. the Corvette? On a given course, what do you think the potential time difference would be between the two cars? Inquireing minds would like to know.....

karm
SS #37

streldoc

iTrader: (1)

The Z06 has over 300 ft/lbs of torque at 1600 rpms to 6000 rmps. That gives it driveability on almost any course. I could design a course where the RX7 or even a Miata could beat a Z06, just line up slalom cones at a constant speed and that would have the miata or RX7 winning, but not by much. Although, the Z06 is wide it transfers weight very nicely because of minimal body roll and relatively light weight. (3018 with Hoosier tires) Add any turns that you have to slow down for less than 4500 rpms in the RX7 and you lose 1-2 tenths to the Z06 in acceleration as you wait to spool into the meat of the 2nd turbo. When Ames and Mollecker came out with the Z06 at the 2001 El Toro Pro, the course was as good as it could get for the RX7. Constant acceleration through fast transition up to a fairly wide turn around and back again through fast constant speed transitions to the finish. The ideal course I could design for the RX7. Results: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/pr...e/results.html

Now, look closely at the time Mollecker turned on the left, and that started showing what the Z06 could do with shocks and development, as he had run a C5 the year prior. All the Z06's at that event were on stock shocks except Molleckers car. Our RX7 had just had all new suspension bushings, new front catalytic, etc. to try to compete. Needless to say, Beth and I had a yellow Z06 in our driveway one week after this event.

Bottom line, on a typical 60 second nationals style course, the Z06 would be about 1-1.5 seconds faster.

donsmith

Latest email from Doug Gill. I guess in a couple of years, when the Z 07 or whatever is creaming the Z06s, the Board might get over the prejudices.

Don,
I forwarded your concerns to the Stock Advisory Committee and to the SEB. The SAC makes the recommendation and the SEB considers it. Then the SEB sends their recommendation to the SCCA Board of Directors for implementation. I personally do not have a vote and very little say in these matters. Also, I personally do not have a dog in this fight and don't care which way it goes. I was just trying to give you an idea of what you are up against. All the committee and board members were active competitors when the Rx-7 won 8 consecutive championships - 3 in AS and 5 in SS. Some were even driving the Rx-7. The majority (it may even be unanimous) believe the Rx-7 is too fast for AS. I have been speaking to SAC and SEB members about this, too.

There are lots of cars in similar situations. Maybe not the "best" car in the class, but too fast for the "lower" class.

Please let me know if I can help in any way.
- Doug

Doug Gill
SCCA Solo Technical Manager
1-800-770-2055
785-232-7215 fax
dgill@scca.com
solotech@scca.com

tpdrx7

Erik,

I understand that there were only 2617 R1's/R2's but there were 11,903 imported with manual transmissions (2116 Base, 1209 PEG's, 5961 Tourings, plus the R's)

I realize that the PEG's and Tourings are carrying a little extra weight, but why wouldn't we include these numbers in letters to the SEB? "Almost 12,000 of these cars with manual transmissions were imported over a three year period . . ." or why not say that "almost 14,000 total cars (not many auto's!) were imported". It just sounds alot less rare and I think it improves the chances of finding more stock examples.

Tomas

Chronos

Here's a copy of my e-mail I just sent in (not that I'd be racing in SS anyways ) Just trying to help out...

I would like to request that the RX-7 be moved to a class where we can compete
fairly. Going up against ZO6's with a 150hp advantage and a frame 10 years ahead
of ours is rediculous. Doesn't the NSX seem like a much better candidate to race
against with only a small bit more power and very simular handling abilities? Racing
against regular C5's would probably prove to be good competition as well. Please
consider this request seriously.

Sincerely,
Jason Williams

'93 Mazda RX-7

RenoCYM

I have half a mind to go to Topeka this year just to finish dead last in the field of Z06s to make our point, that the RX 7 is in the wrong class.

DamonB

You better get out of town then. It happens next week...

tpdrx7

Out of 43 drivers pre-registered Super Stock at nationals this year, one driver is NOT driving a 'Vette

La Rosa, Sandro [N]/Summit, NJ/93 Mazda Rx7 Red/Kumho/Nnj/NORTHEAST

Looks like his wife(?) is also driving the car in SSL.

Kick some chevy *** Sandro!

Tomas

streldoc

iTrader: (1)

I have spoken this weekend with some SEB members, and they agree the RX7 belongs in AS, but they haven't had much member comment, or at least the comments from vette owners outway RX7 owners. So, here is the key time to write those letters again and send them to:
seb@scca.org It is quantity not quality that matters in this one...
Erik Strelnieks

DamonB

My letter is headed out and I am disributing this to every RX-7 driver I know...

RenoCYM

I sent an email last night.

redrotorR1

First day results from SS are up. It's been pretty wet in Topeka apparently. Our lone soldier stands out like a sore thumb .... although he is about middle of the pack. Still 4.5 seconds out of 1st and over 2 seconds out of trophies.

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...groups/ss.html

Hmmm ... writing my letter now.

Chronos

Are we supposed to write another letter?

finky

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but he is still like 20th if he was in AS.

DamonB

Yes. But use a new name this time and mail it from a different post office

MaTT_FoULk

You have to keep in mind that their was rain at the event and some of the classes ran during the rain and some didn't. Comparing classes dosen't work this year.

DamonB

That's true but that wasn't the problem. You still have to be able to pedal the car fast enough...

redrotorR1

Comparing classes doesn't work unless you know exact run order, time between heats, number of heats run earlier, weather conditions, surface conditions, etc., etc. ... repeat ad nauseum, ad infinitum. For example, do you really believe that CS is faster than ASP? Yeah, me neither.

clayne

So glad I'm a road racer.

So what's the common spread as far as Z06 vs FD3S winning pctg in auto-x these days? Is the Z06 absolutely slaughtering?

streldoc

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the slaughter is absolute.

Chronos

Not sure how many Z06's there were at the Nationals in San Diego, but I personally saw 3rd place go to a stock FD.

Rx7cat16

Not take away from the drivers of the FD's at San Diego Tour, (Thomas Kenna is quite a good driver), but it rained on Saturday. Thomas in the 3rd place FD was only .375 behind the winning Z06 on Saturday in the rain, but on Sunday in the dry he was .743 back.
The Z06 flat out sucks in the rain, even on Kumhos, relatively light for it's size with wide tires and too much torque down low for wet weather. The Rx7 on the other hand is much easier to drive in the wet, mainly because it doesn't have all that pesky torque in low rpms, and it throttle steers nicely.
In 2001 Erik wanted to bring both the Rx7 and the Z06 to Nationals so we'd have a dry weather car and a wet weather car. We figured it would makes us pretty unpopular so the Rx7 stayed home
Unless you have a course with a lot of transitional elements, and no low RPM turns, the Z06 is going to dominate the Rx7 in stock trim by a pretty good margin
If you look at the data from all the other Tours last year the closest differential between the highest finishing Rx7 and the highest finishing Z06 was 5.1 seconds over 2 days. No, I don't think the Z06 is _that_ much faster, but there aren't that many FD's out there playing anymore in SS. Probably 7 tenths per 60 second course.
I keep hoping they'll move the FD to AS