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Late Braking

Old 08-31-04, 12:05 PM
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Late Braking

I'm just looking for some opinions. The why's and why not's.
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Old 08-31-04, 01:10 PM
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I am not sure what you mean by "late braking."

It depends on your driving style, the car and what type of driving you do.
Most people who drive in competitions (club, pro, auto-x) brake as late as possible to maintain the most speed.

However, some drivers prefer to sacrifice the begining of the corner, enter somewhat ragged, then try and settle the car mid corner, then exit.

I prefer to brake a bit earlier, drive to the apex, using throttle to control the car, and accelerate at the earliest possible moment. I have found that works for me and my car, other opinions may vary.

Russ
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Old 08-31-04, 09:31 PM
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You always want to carry as much speed as you can while maintaining the line you want to run. That always means braking as late as you can. Always
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Old 08-31-04, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by adam c
You always want to carry as much speed as you can while maintaining the line you want to run. That always means braking as late as you can. Always
Not always true. Certain manuevers favor early braking and smoother line versus hammering the brakes at the last possible second and tossing the car into the transition. For example, esses on a circuit or an offset slalom on an auto-x course ... braking way late will only get you into trouble. Earlier braking and maintaining momentum will result in a faster time.

Different situations will require different techniques. Late braking is most effective in sweepers/steady-state manuevers.
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Old 08-31-04, 11:03 PM
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Are you referring to trail-braking (still braking while entering the turn)?

Trail-braking will make the car turn in sharper -- or oversteer, depending on the situation. It is a useful tool to use in certain cornering situations and car types, but it's best to learn how to drive on the track WITHOUT doing it, first.
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Old 09-01-04, 07:22 AM
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Anyone not braking late into a corner is going slow. To me "late braking" means braking at the absolute last moment in time that still allows the car to travel around the corner without falling off the track. That does not mean it yeilds faster lap times.

If actually racing other cars what counts is track position. It doesn't matter how slowly I get around the track, I only need to be in front of the other cars. Diving under somebody into a corner with a daring late braking pass is not the fastest way around the corner but it puts me in front of the other guy. Even though his acceleration off the corner will probably be better since his entry was better than mine he still has to drive around me after exit to pass me. If I can hold him off for a short while and force him to drop in line behind me for the next corner I won the position. I didn't get through the corner as fast as possible, but I still beat the other car. I won the position even though I went slower through the corner than the car I passed.

If by myself and concerned about nothing but the least laptime then I drive purely for speed; qualifying is like this. In the race speed doesn't matter. What matters is being in front of the rest of the cars.

Last edited by DamonB; 09-01-04 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 09-01-04, 07:45 AM
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DamonB covered that one very well.

Last edited by speedturn; 09-01-04 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 09-01-04, 04:22 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I can see where it works for a given situation or not.
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Old 09-02-04, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by speedturn
DamonB covered that one very well.
like always...
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Old 09-02-04, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by redrotorR1
Not always true. Certain manuevers favor early braking and smoother line versus hammering the brakes at the last possible second and tossing the car into the transition. For example, esses on a circuit or an offset slalom on an auto-x course ... braking way late will only get you into trouble. Earlier braking and maintaining momentum will result in a faster time.

Different situations will require different techniques. Late braking is most effective in sweepers/steady-state manuevers.
Sorry, I have to disagree with you. What I said was that you should brake as late as possible while "maintaining the line you want to run". Maybe you didn't see that part. If you can stay in the line you want, there is no reason to brake early ....... no reason at all. If braking late throws you off line, then you are braking too late, and we already know that is bad.
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Old 09-02-04, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RussinStk
I am not sure what you mean by "late braking."

It depends on your driving style, the car and what type of driving you do.
Most people who drive in competitions (club, pro, auto-x) brake as late as possible to maintain the most speed.

However, some drivers prefer to sacrifice the begining of the corner, enter somewhat ragged, then try and settle the car mid corner, then exit.

I prefer to brake a bit earlier, drive to the apex, using throttle to control the car, and accelerate at the earliest possible moment. I have found that works for me and my car, other opinions may vary.

Russ
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Old 09-02-04, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Are you referring to trail-braking (still braking while entering the turn)?

Trail-braking will make the car turn in sharper -- or oversteer, depending on the situation. It is a useful tool to use in certain cornering situations and car types, but it's best to learn how to drive on the track WITHOUT doing it, first.
I think he's talking about threshhold breaking actaully.
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Old 09-02-04, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by adam c
Sorry, I have to disagree with you. What I said was that you should brake as late as possible while "maintaining the line you want to run". Maybe you didn't see that part. If you can stay in the line you want, there is no reason to brake early ....... no reason at all. If braking late throws you off line, then you are braking too late, and we already know that is bad.
Don't forget that the attitude of the car is just as important as maintaining the proper line. If you brake late enough to keep the car on line, yet the back end is dancing or light, and it prevents you from putting the power down, then your lap times and exit speed will still suffer.

Simply put, you want the very latest braking point that allows you to maintain the best racing line and allows you to put the power down as early and quickly as possible. Now everyone's envelope of performance is different, as is every car, track and driver.

Chris
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Old 09-02-04, 09:57 PM
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Late braking or Threshold Braking is actually not the increase in laptimes you'd think it would be. Travelling at a constant speed towards a corner, braking 30 feet further from the corner only results in a .025 increase in laptimes. (Yes, this was actually measured in a test.) However, in reality, what makes you faster is the fact that you're accelerating longer than the next guy.

And if you're not trailbraking, you're sucking.
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Old 09-03-04, 01:15 PM
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As has been said here, the fastest way around the track is to compress your braking zone so that you brake as late as possible, braking at threshold (tapering off the pedal effort if trailbraking) in order to run the line you want to run. When I hear the term "late braking," to me it means braking too late - i.e. you screwed up. This is different than early apex, late apex, where you are comparing the apex of your line to the geometric apex of the track. Late braking to me is late compared to ideal.
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Old 09-03-04, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamWireRacing
Don't forget that the attitude of the car is just as important as maintaining the proper line. If you brake late enough to keep the car on line, yet the back end is dancing or light, and it prevents you from putting the power down, then your lap times and exit speed will still suffer.

Simply put, you want the very latest braking point that allows you to maintain the best racing line and allows you to put the power down as early and quickly as possible. Now everyone's envelope of performance is different, as is every car, track and driver.

Chris
Chris,

I think we are saying the same thing. If you mess up the "attitude" of the car, then you can't hold your line. Holding your line at the highest speed is the priority.
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