thetech

iTrader: (1)

I'm considering replacing my seat with a head restraint version of itself. My concern is that the seats in an FC seem to sit fairly far forward in relation to the door and I'm worried that getting in and out of the car may become really really difficult. This would of course be bad if I had to do it in a hurry.

Does anyone have any experience with an HR seat in an FC? Here's a bad picture to show what I am talking about:

wrankin

I don't see it in that photo - are you talking about the helmet halos that stick out forward about 9 inches on either side of the headrest?

Eg: http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.ph...&code=Series53

-bill

ccanepa50

iTrader: (1)

i have one (Kirkey) and it works fine, you quickly get to rely on it to rest your head on in the turns, pm me an email and I'll send a pic, i have one in my computer but unfortunately i suck at uploading to the forum......chuck

tims

I have a Racetech seat in my FC with the halo. best seat available by far. not a simple bolt in but it will fit fine even if you are 6' and almost 300#

Gadd

The Kirkey seat from ccanepa50's ITS car..

Black91n/a

Not to rain on your parade, but that won't do much at all in an accident seeing as it's nothing more than a relatively thin piece of bent aluminum. There's a video of one of those in a circle track car that gets in a crash, the thing just folds out of the way. It's on the ISAAC site IIRC. Probably better than nothing, but not much.

Think of it this way, your helmeted head weighs what, 15lbs (WAG)? In a 20G impact it's exerting 300lbs of force on that headrest, and that's if the head is already pressed up against it and doesn't accelerate then hit it. That's not even a particularly big accident either.

A right side net will help out a lot if you aren't willing to change seats but still want some better protection.

tims

Black91n/a is correct check around and visit the rac3etech website for some scary videos. http://www.racetechseatsna.com/multimedia.html pic of my car as well. it shows the back of the seat(didn't know they had it on their site http://www.racetechseatsna.com/image....viperrear.JPG

drftwerks

iTrader: (1)

companies with real fia approval such as recaro have seats like that look into those, i sat in one by OMP, was not comfortable at all

2a+RoN

we have a cobra seat w/ head restraint in the EP car we've been working on in the shop.. It's relatively easy for me to get in out, but I'm thin and wiry. It might be more difficult depending on your build and cage/door bar layout.

ccanepa50

iTrader: (1)

ill flat out agree the Kirky is far from the best seat/head piece out there, at the time we built this car it was better than nothing (like we had run for years on the old cars), it still is very nice to drive with as G force neck pressure is reduced..... one could debate on a progressive collapse softening the strain on the driver but i wont bother as there are better units out there and one should by the best available.....the main point was that the head restraint did not make it harder to get in the FC for a 6'1" 180# driver...... you do rely on the mirrors more for checking the increased blind spots as a head turn doesnt see near as much.....
chuck

Valkyrie

Isn't one of the reasons they use those head restrains is as a headrest during corners?

Seems like it would be more useful on a stock car than on a road racer.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

A lot of local racers have been getting this seat from Ultrashield. Seems to fit in lots of cars w/no issues. vickracing.com has them in stock

Black91n/a

There's lots of choice out there in FIA approved head restraint seats for under $1000, you just have to be willing to spend the money on your safety rather than your speed.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the responses guys, I'm looking at getting the Cobra Sebring S to replace my Cobra Suzuka. I guess it's a go!

Sideview_S13

all this talk of head restraint yet no one mentioned getting a hans???

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I consider HANS a necessity and almost a foregone conclusion at this point!

I already have a HANS and was just curious how difficult it is to enter and exit the car with a head restraint seat.

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

Because it's a different, yet related topic. It also has it's own sticky'd thread within the race forum.

tims

As I mentioned in an earlier post. I have a Racetech seat that has the head restraint and I never race without my HANS. I am also a bit of a fat guy at 6' tall and a small sandwich under 300#. I have had this setup in my car for two or three years now and entry and exit is just as easy as the previous seat. it does take some time to get accustomed to the new setup but now I don't even notice either piece. I had a friend killed in a side impact accident at very low speed, and tell everyone to install a new halo type seat. and my recomendation is the Racetech line as it outperforms all of the competition.

Sideview_S13

i've noticed the easiest way to get out of the car is dependent if you have sliders or not. if you have sliders slide it all the way back. i used my friends honda challenge h4 crx for a track day and he has the racetech 4009hr and i got out of the car by leaning forward and towards the a-pillar to get out. having the cage as leverage helps. considering the racetech seats don't have the huge 'ears' as like some japanese seats (see link http://www.tanida-web.co.jp/JURANRac...onal_seat.html ) it is easier to get in an out of. I'm 5'11 @ 170 pounds. I do like the japanese 'wraparound' seats they have a much more comfortable feel. If you can get a seat brace. It helps with serious multiple impacts.

those ultrashield seats are stronger then the kevlar/CF seats since they can withstand multiple big impacts. I just think there isn't enough padding for the driver in those seats. You figure a kevlar/cf seat gets a 5 year FiA rating. where as the aluminum ultrashield seats don't have an experation date. go figure.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I'm not aware of any Ultrashield/Kirkey/etc aluminum seats that have any FIA rating. I'm not speculating why this is, but it's definitely something worth considering.

Black91n/a

I highly doubt that any aluminum seat is FIA rated, and in absence of any testing that's the best measure of safety. FIA > non-FIA.

Done right an aluminum seat could be very strong and safe, but I just don't think the usual Ultrashield/Kirkey/etc ones are as safe as an FIA composite seat.

Sideview_S13

none of the ultrashield seats are FIA-rated. they also do not have an expiration date as well. If you think of it like this. How many impacts can kevlar withstand before needing to be replace to due damage? Then wonder how many impacts an aluminum seat can widthstand before it fails as well. BTW other companies such a joie make the nascar seats. Sure we can go back and forth all day with FIA-rated equipment. I compare more things to rally. They usually have the same FIA-rated products as most roadracers. SO i look at crash videos and look at how much flex occurs in those seats. Even Racetechs website shows how much flex those seats have during a crash.

My speculation is that if it is a composite seat, add the seat back brace to it.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

I am the furthest thing from an engineer you could get but you guys that are answer this for me. The aluminum seats will give in an accident and actually bend a little. I know from personal experience. The composite seats will they do that? If they won't give a little then is that force transferred to the occupant?

I have an FIA seat and an Ultrashield, while I will agree that it needs extra padding I like the Ultrashield better than the FIA. THe FIA seat is a Courbeau or something like that. I do like the Racetech seat and would sure like to pick up a lightly used one. Seems to me all seats should carry some kind of rating.

Does adding a seat back brace void the fia rating? I know they are designed to be used without one.

wrankin

I can't see how adding a seat-back brace (ie. additional mounting points) can void the rating (as long as you don't clearly weaken the seat).

Hmm, I just went back through the 2008 GCR. They simply state that seats "homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure". It's only required when the seat or mounting does not meet 8855-1999.

So you can add a back brace.

A couple points:

- does FIA 8855-1999 specify an expiration date for seats? I don't know.

- There is no expiration date for non-FIA seats. So if 8855-1999 does specify an expiration, then you add a back brace and are now compliant.

- If you are in a significant incident, then you should replace the seat along with your harnesses (and probably your helmet).

-bill

Black91n/a

Composite seats aren't perfectly rigid, they have some give in them too, but they won't bend, and bending isn't good, it means the seat failed and could cause an injury depending on where/how much it bent.

I think there is an expiration on FIA seats, they are date stamped for date of manufacture, as with some resins used in some composites, it'll degrade over time from UV exposure.

If you're in anything but a very minor hit, you should replace your belts, the seat and so on, as even if they look ok, they could be damaged and provide less protection in the next hit.

Sure those Joie seats look nice, but for the price you might as well get a Racetech seat.

I'd add a back brace anyway, it can't hurt and will make the whole thing that much more solid.

Like I said, in the absence of any other tests, we can only assume that the FIA rated seats are superior, since at least they've passed a baseline test, whereas the others have done nothing of the sort, or maybe even tried and failed.