Fuel starvation in 3rd gen--solutions?
03-13-07, 01:17 PM
#127
Chris, by "tank bucket mod" you mean just a cover, right? Or did you also add check valves like Gene did?
Originally Posted by hyperion
Well, some very encouraging news to report from my track day at Laguna. The short version is that the tank bucket mod allowed me to run down to below 1/4 of a tank--10 gallons less fuel than before.
-ch
-ch
03-13-07, 02:46 PM
#128
Just a cover, although I made a gasket seal to the bucket and the pump body using a sheet of rubber. I think Gene's mod of adding the check valves will only improve the performance, provided that you plug the factory hydrostatic system. Gene did this by squeezing a rubber hose into that location. You could also use two rubber stoppers with a bolt and wing nut.
Here's a picture of the cover:
The cool thing is that I made this part from a CAD database so I can have more made. (The one above was hand-cut from a template.) The plate is steel as it has good strength in very small thicknesses and can be bent without significant yielding. The rubber is hand-cut, and the hardware is stainless with nylock nuts.
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
Here's a picture of the cover:
The cool thing is that I made this part from a CAD database so I can have more made. (The one above was hand-cut from a template.) The plate is steel as it has good strength in very small thicknesses and can be bent without significant yielding. The rubber is hand-cut, and the hardware is stainless with nylock nuts.
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
03-13-07, 02:55 PM
#129
Originally Posted by paul_3rdgen
Hyperion, good testing......I might just buy myself a 95 tank.
-ch
03-13-07, 02:56 PM
#130
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So does this work for 93 tanks? I'd love to test it out cone chasing. And I have a track event coming up in April 23rd. BTW, will this fit w/ modded pumped? I run a Bosch setup.
03-13-07, 03:08 PM
#132
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
Aren't 93 and 94 (like Hyperion has) tanks the same, with only the '95 being different?
93: bucket, no tab loops
94: bucket, some have tab loops
95: bucket with tab loops
96+ (JDM): bucket with cover using tab loops
I think people who buy new tanks get the 96+ model through Mazdaspeed.
-ch
03-13-07, 03:11 PM
#133
Originally Posted by HedgeHog
So does this work for 93 tanks? I'd love to test it out cone chasing. And I have a track event coming up in April 23rd. BTW, will this fit w/ modded pumped? I run a Bosch setup.
1) place slotted holes in the tabs of the cover
2) drill holes (using a MANUAL DRILL) below the tabs in the bucket
3) attach using simple nylon tie wraps
The 93 tank might require one more tab to fully locate it. Again, since I don't have such a tank I can't test this.
As far as a modded pump goes, as long as the body is about the same diameter and is in the same location, you shouldn't have any problems. The inlet filter also needs to point in roughly the same direction.
-ch
03-13-07, 03:39 PM
#135
Originally Posted by Mahjik
If one could be made for a '93 tank, I'd be interested in one. Even if it was just the template.
Just kidding, of course. I couldn't resist!
It should be possible to make a version of the cover that can be modified to fit multiple tank or pump setups.
-ch
03-13-07, 04:19 PM
#136
Originally Posted by hyperion
<SNIP>
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
I'm now a certified Porsche Club instructor and I will be on the track in April, May, and June of this year.
As such, I would love to beta-test this setup.
:-) neil
03-13-07, 05:55 PM
#138
Originally Posted by hyperion
Paul, I think the cover can be modified to work with the 93 tank. If you'd be willing to take a few photos of the bucket in your tank I could verify this. (It will take you about 1hr to do this if you haven't done it before.)
-ch
-ch
My plastic tank was removed when I had my tank sumped, I am just stuck now buying a new tank or doing something completely custom. I might have to do a surge tank or really modify the stock tank to get the best results with the least amount of plumbing and wires. I am a Machinist so I might just make myself one of those fancy intank surge tanks, but I have been to busy lately and alittle lazy.
Thanks anyway,
Paul
03-13-07, 06:49 PM
#139
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I'm glad it worked out for you. Again, with the check valves and plugged stock inlet I was able to run as little as 2 gallons, but with the 3rd Gen's appetite for fuel, that's cutting it pretty close on a road course.
The cover looks great, but others please note that this is a PITA install- particularly if you have big hands. I also managed to cut the **** out of my hands and break two of the stock tabs (the pieces that bend over and into the baffle) that hold the baffle to the stock tank. I had to drill holes in these and mount the baffle to the tank using bolts. IF YOU DO THIS, YOU BETTER FLUSH THE TANK THOROUGHLY!!! Fuel vapor + sparks = big bang! I certainly don't want anyone to get injured doing this! Of course, a few minor lacerations on your hands is worth the trouble if you install it correctly...
Cheers,
Gene
The cover looks great, but others please note that this is a PITA install- particularly if you have big hands. I also managed to cut the **** out of my hands and break two of the stock tabs (the pieces that bend over and into the baffle) that hold the baffle to the stock tank. I had to drill holes in these and mount the baffle to the tank using bolts. IF YOU DO THIS, YOU BETTER FLUSH THE TANK THOROUGHLY!!! Fuel vapor + sparks = big bang! I certainly don't want anyone to get injured doing this! Of course, a few minor lacerations on your hands is worth the trouble if you install it correctly...
Cheers,
Gene
Originally Posted by hyperion
Just a cover, although I made a gasket seal to the bucket and the pump body using a sheet of rubber. I think Gene's mod of adding the check valves will only improve the performance, provided that you plug the factory hydrostatic system. Gene did this by squeezing a rubber hose into that location. You could also use two rubber stoppers with a bolt and wing nut.
Here's a picture of the cover:
The cool thing is that I made this part from a CAD database so I can have more made. (The one above was hand-cut from a template.) The plate is steel as it has good strength in very small thicknesses and can be bent without significant yielding. The rubber is hand-cut, and the hardware is stainless with nylock nuts.
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
Here's a picture of the cover:
The cool thing is that I made this part from a CAD database so I can have more made. (The one above was hand-cut from a template.) The plate is steel as it has good strength in very small thicknesses and can be bent without significant yielding. The rubber is hand-cut, and the hardware is stainless with nylock nuts.
I am considering doing a beta run of these. If you are interested and can do some actual testing, please contact me at hyperion@obscure.org. I'm mostly interested in those that are active in autocrossing and track driving.
-ch
03-13-07, 07:42 PM
#142
Originally Posted by hyperion
I am not positive, but this is how I understand it:
93: bucket, no tab loops
94: bucket, some have tab loops
95: bucket with tab loops
96+ (JDM): bucket with cover using tab loops
I think people who buy new tanks get the 96+ model through Mazdaspeed.
-ch
93: bucket, no tab loops
94: bucket, some have tab loops
95: bucket with tab loops
96+ (JDM): bucket with cover using tab loops
I think people who buy new tanks get the 96+ model through Mazdaspeed.
-ch
If so, I can check it against the one on Mazdamotorsports (not MazdaSpeed).
:-) neil
03-13-07, 08:04 PM
#143
Originally Posted by hyperion
Sorry, Mahjik, you need at least 18,000 posts to qualify for this cover.
Originally Posted by hyperion
It should be possible to make a version of the cover that can be modified to fit multiple tank or pump setups.
03-13-07, 08:23 PM
#144
Originally Posted by gfelber
.... I certainly don't want anyone to get injured doing this! Of course, a few minor lacerations on your hands is worth the trouble if you install it correctly...
Cheers,
Gene
Cheers,
Gene
You are THE MAN!
Drop me a line
Crispy
03-14-07, 10:18 AM
#145
Did you test the rubber that you used for for the seal in gas to see if it holds up? I have been testing fuel systems for a while now and a lot of rubbers expand and deteriorate when submerged in gas. They then will clog your fuel pick up. You should be able to tell already if it is deteriorating. Remember plastics/rubber are petroleum based.
nice to see that this solves a majority of the problem. Definitely a huge improvement from stock. It's nice to see testing data to back up your baffle also. Keep up the good work. This kind of thing could even work with the surge can idea.
Brandon
nice to see that this solves a majority of the problem. Definitely a huge improvement from stock. It's nice to see testing data to back up your baffle also. Keep up the good work. This kind of thing could even work with the surge can idea.
Brandon
03-14-07, 12:12 PM
#146
Good question, Brandon. I wish I had a picture of this, but I tested three types of gasket material by submerging them in gas for 24 hours. One of the samples--a foam rubber--began to disintegrate in the gas. The material I ultimately used is designed for oil/fuel systems and I didn't notice any degradation. When I do my beta run I'm going to replace the prototype at which point I'm going to verify the condition of the gasket.
-ch
-ch
03-14-07, 01:03 PM
#147
Good that you thought of that in advance. I don't think many people relize this when they put stuff inside the tank. Not all high pressure fuel hose is made to hold up to fuel on the outside of the hose. I t can split on the outside from the fuel, then burst from the fuel pressure. So make sure that the hose that you use to do twin fuel pump setups is ok to be submerged in gas.
03-14-07, 06:16 PM
#148
So far I have four beta testers, but I'd like someone with a 94-95 (bucket with tabs) who can test at the autocross. Please email hyperion@obscure.org if you are interested.
-ch
-ch
03-15-07, 01:11 AM
#150
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What are the advantages of an intank surge setup like oorx7's, over something external like this (other than a clean install obviously): http://www.speedmachineperformance.c...uel+Surge+Tank