Fuel Cell Install Help SCCA Rules too
07-02-07, 01:07 PM
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Fuel Cell Install Help SCCA Rules too
OK Im Puting in a fuel cell in a 2gen
I want to know how other people has done this. I have an Idea of how I want to do it just want so other Ideas too
I am down the line going to Put a cage in it too like winter time for next sesson
And the rules for SCCA regulations for mounting the fuel cell.
Thanks A lot!
Joe
I want to know how other people has done this. I have an Idea of how I want to do it just want so other Ideas too
I am down the line going to Put a cage in it too like winter time for next sesson
And the rules for SCCA regulations for mounting the fuel cell.
Thanks A lot!
Joe
07-02-07, 01:32 PM
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You can't get a cheap RCI or similar cell. You'll need something like ATL or Fuel Safe. I had a 12gal ATL cell mounted by a very famous RX7 shop who also advertises on this forum, I won't name names though. They mounted it with (2) 1" metal straps that run horizontal with the car, almost like a U shape. The bottom of the cell had a 1" angle iron box built for it. There was a small 8" or so hole in the deck area to access the filler and a lid to cover this area. My first decent "off track" excursion and the fuel cell detached from the car and ended up 20' feet away. Fortunately, no other major problems other than the cell was trashed, could have been a fire.
Second time around, new 12 gal ATL cell and a long time race shop mounted it by cutting a hole in the rear deck area so the cell sets in from topside. They then reinforced the edges on the underside with angle iron. The cell then bolts through the anlge iron. The weight of the cell is supported by the rear deck and reinforced with the angle iron. The whole cell is covered by an aluminum box that is the dimensions of the cell and about 4" high. It has a hinged door on it to access the filler and the whole thing is removable to service the cell. I don't have any worries of it getting hit or detaching from the car now. Pics upon request.
I do have concerns about losing stiffness in the chasis with such a big hole cut for the cell but it's behind the rear shocks and that area is reinforced by the cage anywayws. My concerns may or may not be valid, it's too late now as the hole is cut... at least the cell isn't leaving the car again. My car is a 2nd Gen.
Go here to read the rules on fuel cells: http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2007.pdf
9.3.26, GCR p. 79
BTW... You don't need a fuel cell for solo or even club racing in IT.
Second time around, new 12 gal ATL cell and a long time race shop mounted it by cutting a hole in the rear deck area so the cell sets in from topside. They then reinforced the edges on the underside with angle iron. The cell then bolts through the anlge iron. The weight of the cell is supported by the rear deck and reinforced with the angle iron. The whole cell is covered by an aluminum box that is the dimensions of the cell and about 4" high. It has a hinged door on it to access the filler and the whole thing is removable to service the cell. I don't have any worries of it getting hit or detaching from the car now. Pics upon request.
I do have concerns about losing stiffness in the chasis with such a big hole cut for the cell but it's behind the rear shocks and that area is reinforced by the cage anywayws. My concerns may or may not be valid, it's too late now as the hole is cut... at least the cell isn't leaving the car again. My car is a 2nd Gen.
Go here to read the rules on fuel cells: http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2007.pdf
9.3.26, GCR p. 79
BTW... You don't need a fuel cell for solo or even club racing in IT.
Last edited by SCCAITS; 07-02-07 at 01:42 PM.
07-02-07, 01:42 PM
#3
Old Rotary Dog
The SCCA rules are in the GCR. Check the SCCA site (www.scca.com), and click on "Club Racing -> Cars and Rules".
The main one to pay attention to is the requirement for a "bulkhead" to cover the fuel cell. You can't leave the top of the cell exposed to the drivers compartment.
-bill
The main one to pay attention to is the requirement for a "bulkhead" to cover the fuel cell. You can't leave the top of the cell exposed to the drivers compartment.
-bill
07-03-07, 02:01 AM
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I plan on next year doing some track Events like solo2 AND others
Im putting the cell in because my stock gas tank is rusted shut and no way in hell opening in and didnt want to buy a new one and didnt want to use a used one.
Im doing a LS1 swap too
Im putting the cell in because my stock gas tank is rusted shut and no way in hell opening in and didnt want to buy a new one and didnt want to use a used one.
Im doing a LS1 swap too
07-03-07, 02:02 AM
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You can't get a cheap RCI or similar cell. You'll need something like ATL or Fuel Safe. I had a 12gal ATL cell mounted by a very famous RX7 shop who also advertises on this forum, I won't name names though. They mounted it with (2) 1" metal straps that run horizontal with the car, almost like a U shape. The bottom of the cell had a 1" angle iron box built for it. There was a small 8" or so hole in the deck area to access the filler and a lid to cover this area. My first decent "off track" excursion and the fuel cell detached from the car and ended up 20' feet away. Fortunately, no other major problems other than the cell was trashed, could have been a fire.
Second time around, new 12 gal ATL cell and a long time race shop mounted it by cutting a hole in the rear deck area so the cell sets in from topside. They then reinforced the edges on the underside with angle iron. The cell then bolts through the anlge iron. The weight of the cell is supported by the rear deck and reinforced with the angle iron. The whole cell is covered by an aluminum box that is the dimensions of the cell and about 4" high. It has a hinged door on it to access the filler and the whole thing is removable to service the cell. I don't have any worries of it getting hit or detaching from the car now. Pics upon request.
I do have concerns about losing stiffness in the chasis with such a big hole cut for the cell but it's behind the rear shocks and that area is reinforced by the cage anywayws. My concerns may or may not be valid, it's too late now as the hole is cut... at least the cell isn't leaving the car again. My car is a 2nd Gen.
Go here to read the rules on fuel cells: http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2007.pdf
9.3.26, GCR p. 79
BTW... You don't need a fuel cell for solo or even club racing in IT.
Second time around, new 12 gal ATL cell and a long time race shop mounted it by cutting a hole in the rear deck area so the cell sets in from topside. They then reinforced the edges on the underside with angle iron. The cell then bolts through the anlge iron. The weight of the cell is supported by the rear deck and reinforced with the angle iron. The whole cell is covered by an aluminum box that is the dimensions of the cell and about 4" high. It has a hinged door on it to access the filler and the whole thing is removable to service the cell. I don't have any worries of it getting hit or detaching from the car now. Pics upon request.
I do have concerns about losing stiffness in the chasis with such a big hole cut for the cell but it's behind the rear shocks and that area is reinforced by the cage anywayws. My concerns may or may not be valid, it's too late now as the hole is cut... at least the cell isn't leaving the car again. My car is a 2nd Gen.
Go here to read the rules on fuel cells: http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2007.pdf
9.3.26, GCR p. 79
BTW... You don't need a fuel cell for solo or even club racing in IT.
07-03-07, 07:31 AM
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This is a 12 Gal ATL cell.
Here is the cell that detached from the car when I went off track into some grass. It was installed by a shop who thinks they are the king of rotaries. As you can see, they don't know jack about installing fuel cells... scary thing is they do race cars though. A new cell wasn't cheap.
Here is the cell that detached from the car when I went off track into some grass. It was installed by a shop who thinks they are the king of rotaries. As you can see, they don't know jack about installing fuel cells... scary thing is they do race cars though. A new cell wasn't cheap.
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07-04-07, 10:54 AM
#11
Licensed Zip Tie Mechanic
Here is how ours sits. Please note, the vent hose has since been extended and goes out through the old fuel door.
I'll see if I can get photos of how it is mounted underneath. It mounts up to the floor from under it with a whole bunch of Grade 8 bolts, and I'll see if I can get some photos of how it's done.
The car has had some off track excursions before we had it, one of which ripped off the exhaust, and the cell stayed in there and survived just fine. Note, there is now an aluminum fire barrier built over it with a door that we open to fuel it. The fuel pump is now located above the floor along with the filter as well, under the fire barrier, as seen in my inital drawing for the plan for the fire barrier here:
I'll see if I can get photos of how it is mounted underneath. It mounts up to the floor from under it with a whole bunch of Grade 8 bolts, and I'll see if I can get some photos of how it's done.
The car has had some off track excursions before we had it, one of which ripped off the exhaust, and the cell stayed in there and survived just fine. Note, there is now an aluminum fire barrier built over it with a door that we open to fuel it. The fuel pump is now located above the floor along with the filter as well, under the fire barrier, as seen in my inital drawing for the plan for the fire barrier here:
Last edited by PinkRacer; 07-04-07 at 11:00 AM.
07-04-07, 11:51 AM
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Cool Thanks for that
An under car Shot and mounting shots would be nice
I think im going to build a cage around the bottom of it too Kinda like a late model/ bush car then drill a hole to fill it keeping the fuel pump and stuff underneath Then making a box like you did for it.
An under car Shot and mounting shots would be nice
I think im going to build a cage around the bottom of it too Kinda like a late model/ bush car then drill a hole to fill it keeping the fuel pump and stuff underneath Then making a box like you did for it.
07-04-07, 11:58 AM
#13
Licensed Zip Tie Mechanic
Cool Thanks for that
An under car Shot and mounting shots would be nice
I think im going to build a cage around the bottom of it too Kinda like a late model/ bush car then drill a hole to fill it keeping the fuel pump and stuff underneath Then making a box like you did for it.
An under car Shot and mounting shots would be nice
I think im going to build a cage around the bottom of it too Kinda like a late model/ bush car then drill a hole to fill it keeping the fuel pump and stuff underneath Then making a box like you did for it.
Some people build almost a "basket" under it of tubing that the cell sits in, then they bolt down the cell to the floor.
I'll get some photos of underneath the car if I have a chance tonight.
07-04-07, 01:58 PM
#15
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Mark, it's been a while... but didnt your cell attach with fabricated straps like the stock method (well... stock on first gens, dont know off hand how second gens mount)? I don't remember being particularly scared about the mounting method, other than it not being the way I've done it every time I've installed one (like you've got it now, I suspect).
07-09-07, 09:59 PM
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Chris, I found a pic of how it was installed when I got the project car. The only thing I think I have now that came with the car when I bought it is the sheet metal! DO NOT mount like the cell below, costly and could have been dangerous experience. The cell pictured here is the same one all beat up a few posts earlier. My new cell "drops in" from the top.
07-10-07, 07:10 AM
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The cell ended up 20' away from the car when the rear got loose and I went off track exiting Horseshoe at MSR. No contact with other cars and theres nothing but grass off the paved surface, it was Easter day 2007. Something so minor I don't think should have caused the cell to come off, maybe it was too low? I should add that the 1" straps (2) of them were still attached to the car, but the cell was gone - it wasn't one of the 4 attachment points where the straps attached to the car. I don't have a good explanation, I wish I did. The 2 straps were almost "pulled apart" which would then allow the cell to drop.
07-10-07, 08:27 AM
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07-10-07, 04:14 PM
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Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I remember now -- that frame around the bottom was riveted to the cell case, and not attached to the straps at all. The straps were cheap steel, like fencing material and not connected to each other. IIRC, the cell was stood away from the rear sheet metal by some rods for some unknown reason, and attached to stock looking points with factory looking fastners. I'll put in that it looked fine to me at the time, albeit not the way I would mount it.
My guess as to the cause was some sort of direct hit to the cell/straps, which bent or broke those standoffs, and let the cell slip out the bottom. I'm vaguely remembering those standoffs looked like they were stick welded, and not very well.
HTH, maybe that supports one of your theories.
EDIT: found of picture of the strap attachments, but evidently I didn't take a picture of the underside of the car with the cell out (thought I did... might've lost it in a drive crash or something)
http://taylorrotorsports.com/project...TS/ITS 006.jpg
My guess as to the cause was some sort of direct hit to the cell/straps, which bent or broke those standoffs, and let the cell slip out the bottom. I'm vaguely remembering those standoffs looked like they were stick welded, and not very well.
HTH, maybe that supports one of your theories.
EDIT: found of picture of the strap attachments, but evidently I didn't take a picture of the underside of the car with the cell out (thought I did... might've lost it in a drive crash or something)
http://taylorrotorsports.com/project...TS/ITS 006.jpg
07-11-07, 09:22 AM
#24
Licensed Zip Tie Mechanic
Yeah it doesn't seem like the fact that it was bottom mounted was the problem, more like the way that it was done. Ours is bottom mounted, but it's in there very very well.
btw, I know i haven't gotten pics yet, there's a bunch of crap behind the car and I have to jack it up.
btw, I know i haven't gotten pics yet, there's a bunch of crap behind the car and I have to jack it up.