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First time to try Solo II autox, advice appreciated

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First time to try Solo II autox, advice appreciated

Old 08-21-11, 01:50 PM
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TX First time to try Solo II autox, advice appreciated

Going to try my hand at a Solo II event in a couple of weeks. It will be my first time to do anything like that. My FD is close to stock.

Any tips or pointers that might be helpful for an FD owner and novice autox'er. Anything specific to the car that I need to consider? As the saying goes, I don't even know what I don't know. Any tips for a first time autox'er related to driving technique or threads I should read?
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Old 08-21-11, 05:25 PM
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I assume you will be running regular street tires. You should add extra pressure to help prevent rollover on tight turns. Ask the other drivers for any location specific advice. Most should be happy to give advice. Walk the course as many times as you can. Brake early, hit the apex and power out. And most of all have fun.
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Old 08-22-11, 06:38 AM
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I posted this in another thread, and it is mostly aimed at autocrossing a 1st gen, but I'll post it again here because there might be a few gems in here for you.



I've had a few requests for tips on autocrossing lately, and since the Iwankel site has changed direction, my writeup is no longer available there. So I figured I'd repost it here for anyone who is interested:

Random thoughts for the aspiring Autocross Racer 1 Year, 1 Month ago

My qualifications: I have over six years of experience in Autocross racing. I started late, at the age of 35, after spending my entire life wanting to race cars. I had been fairly familiar with the concept of autocrossing, but never knew how to get my foot in the door. Then one day while driving down the freeway South of town, I saw some guys actually running an event in a large parking lot alongside the road. I pulled in, spectated, and ended up talking with some of the competitors (who were all very friendly). For my first event, my first run, I got to the line, the guy said "GO", and then the next thing I remember is pulling back into the grid area. My first run was over, and it happened so fast I couldn't even commit it to memory! My time was awful, I knocked over more cones than I had left standing, but I knew I was hooked for life! Since that time, my car and I have both progressed to the point that we are consistently stomping on the Miatas, even those on race rubber, while utilizing some of the cheapest tires on the market.

What is Autocross?: Autocross is a great way for anyone interested in auto racing to get into the game. The concept is very simple: find a big empty parking lot, lay out a small scale road course by using traffic cones (pylons), and run cars one at a time against the clock. Setting things up this way ensures that the events will be very safe both for the drivers and their cars. To get started, you just need a car that will pass the tech inspection (no leaks, battery strapped down, no bad tie rods or ball joints, etc.), the entry fee (usually about 20 bucks), and a helmet (which can usually be borrowed at the event if you don't have one). A lot of more detailed information can be found at www.scca.com

Getting Started: One of the most common things I hear from drivers who want to autocross, but haven't yet, is "my car just isn't ready". By that, what they are saying is that they don't have a race suspension yet, or racing tires, or, basically, that their car is not yet a fully qualified race car. That mind set is the wrong one to have, in my opinion. The absolute best thing that any potential racer can do is to get started! If your car can pass tech, meaning that it is fit to drive on the streets, then just go for it. Don't wait for those performance parts, or trying to get your car perfect, but rather get started on the driver now and worry about the car later. It has often been said that in racing, it is 90% driver and 10% car, and that is very true. I didn't know how true this really is until one year my car lost her motor, and had to sit out for the last (my favorite) race of the year. I ended up getting to use a friend's RX7 for the race, but it had no modifications at all, original suspension and bushings (180,000 miles), and very old snow tires. Not the ideal setup by any means. But, to my surprise, once I accepted the car's limitations and concentrated on working with what I had, I ended up turning times that were barely any slower than if I had been driving my own car (with it's vast modifications). So, if you are sitting on the fence thinking that some day you might want to try this, just dive in and get started. You will have so much fun, that working on the car will be that much easier due to the added motivation of getting something done before the next event.

"Why does my car Understeer"?: This is, without question, the number one complaint of new drivers. They are trying to go fast, but the car just can't keep up with their "mad skilz" and doesn't want to go through the turn without plowing to the outside. I spent my first two years combating this issue, and basically banging my head against a brick wall. While some of the problem can be addressed through car setup, 95% of the problem is based in the driver behind the wheel. One of the best sayings to come out of this sport is "sometimes you have to go slow to go fast". And the problem, in a nut shell, is that you are entering the corner too fast. If you concentrate on "slow in, fast out", you will be well on your way to overcoming this problem. With any type of consistent handling problem, it is always the safest bet to blame it on the driver, rather than the car.

Control your body/Control your car: One thing that you will quickly find is that, once you are making your run and throwing your car back and forth, it is very difficult to keep your body from being thrown around as well. So you grip the wheel tighter, force your knees out against the foot wells, and push yourself back against the seat as hard as you can. All in an attempt to keep your body from being thrown around inside the car. Doing all of that takes some of your attention away from what you are trying to do (control your car). The best trick I have found is this: as you are moving your car to the starting line, take all of the slack out of your seatbelt and push yourself back against the seat, then quickly "stab" the brakes causing the seatbelt to lock in that position. Now you are firmly clamped into your seat, and you can concentrate on driving instead of holding yourself in a good position. The best racers don't driver their cars, they wear them.

Walk the Course!: Before the racing begins at an Autocross event, they allow all drivers to walk through the course. This is something you will want to take advantage of. In fact, it is impossible to walk the course too many times. So many people will walk through the course once, and think they've got it, only to see nothing but a "sea of cones" when they pull their car up to the line. After walking the course, go back to your car and sit behind the wheel with your eyes closed. Then try to visualize every single turn that the course makes, thinking about how fast you will be going, whether you will be accelerating or braking, and every other bit of detail you can add to the picture. If you find there are any parts of the course that you are unsure of, then walk it again. The course needs to be firmly implanted in your mind before you begin driving it. The last thing you need it to have to spend any thought trying to figure out where the course goes while you are making your runs.

Tire Pressures: Due to the extreme cornering forces that you will be seeing at an event, you are going to want to add some air to your tires. When I was running the 215/50/13 Sumitomo HTR200s on the stock ("plus" style, 5.5" wide) wheels, I would run them at around 45 psi. That wheel wasn't quite wide enough to run the 215s, but they still worked pretty well. When I moved up to a 8" wide wheel, I began running the Sumis at 50 - 55 psi, mainly because with the wider wheel the tire had a much better profile and less need to "deform" in order to get the contact patch onto the road. Changing to the wider wheel made a phenomenal difference in overall traction. With different tire/wheel combinations, your desired tire pressures will be different. One trick is to mark the sidewall with a bit of chalk or white shoe polish. After your first run, check the markings to see if you are rolling the tire over onto the sidewall. If you are, then add more air. If not, then drive faster.

Additives: I have found that adding a can of Seafoam to the tank (about 1/4 full or less for a race), always results in a good kick in the pants where horse power is concerned. The car is much "peppier" and more responsive. Last year I made it a habit to always add a can before a race. I also add a bit of 2-cycle oil to the gas tank, just to aid in lubrication while running at high rpms in race conditions.

Carburetion: You will find many different opinions on "what is the best carb" anywhere you go these days. A lot of the old timers swear by Delorto, Webber, and Holley carbs. Some of the serious old time racers will talk all day about their Yaw carb. This tends to be a subject that people take very personally, and sometimes (quite often, actually) discussions quickly get out of hand. The only carbs that I have used on my 7 are the stock Nikki, and a Nikki which was modified by Sterling. I purchased my Sterling carb shortly after I started racing, and it has performed so well that I have never had even the slightest curiosity about what the other types might have to offer. It has performed that well, and I have no problem recommending them to anybody looking for more power without a loss in drivability.







.
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Old 08-22-11, 06:54 AM
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Find someone with experience to talk to and ride with you on your first runs.
Definitely go slow on your first run. its hard to read the cones sometimes as a novice.

Don't worry about your car other than passing the very basic tech.
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Old 08-23-11, 10:29 AM
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Sage advice from Kentetsu.

I would add this bit about staying put in the car: Forget the stock seatbelt.
Install a Schroth 4 point harness - inexpensive and perfect for autocross. It will make a big difference in how well you drive.
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Old 08-24-11, 12:08 PM
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The absolute most important thing I tell the beginers when I do instructing is the following

DO NOT worry about your speed. Put aside any ego about "proving" how fast you or your car is and just focus on learning how to reconise a pylon'd course. Learn your gates, directionals, track indicators etc... no one wins events on their first few times out. The fastest way to learn is to go slow. If you hear your tires squeel in any of your first couple events, you are going beyond your current skill level.

DO NOT worry about what times others are posting. There will always be faster drivers in better prepped cars so this is something one must understand when getting into racing.

DO NOT show up with a fully modded car for your first few events (I would say run stock for your first season)... this is mainly so you understand what your car is doing in its rawest form. when you are as quick as you think you can get with a stock(ish) car, then start modding according to where you want to improve (example, you find too much understeer start by playing with tire pressures and maybe sway bars)... when you run an event on those simple mods, see if it helped and go from there.

The problem with showing up with a prepped car is that if you find something isnt working well and the car is hard to manage, you dont know which parts that you put on are the culprits.

Power IS NOT important to autoX, balance and braking are the key factors. The smoother you are, the faster you will be, plain and simple. The more power you have as a new driver, the more you tend to rely on it and most AutoX layouts do not have enough straightaway to compensate for slow cornering and exit speed.

SLOW IN FAST OUT... dont try and push the limits of how fast you enter a corner, you will just collect pilons with your bumper and **** off the track crew who need to reset them up. Entering a turn slower allows you to get your line perfect and put the accelerator down earlier to get to the next turn. This is where time is made up and helps you stay in control.

There are so many more fundamentals in driving, but this is a good start. I would also recommend that if you have a turbo car, install a boost controller and turn the boost all the way down. Drive with as little power as possible to avoid boost peaks. You dont want to worry about oversteer due to too much power really quickly. Learn the balance and breakout points of the car in its simplest form.

Hope this helps
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Old 08-24-11, 01:50 PM
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Definitely focus on making the driver match the car's performance potential. Focus on raising the car's potential later on down the road. The true sign of a very good autocrosser is the ability to hop into anybody's car and win with it...
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Old 08-25-11, 09:31 PM
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Thanks to all for your advice. My car is nearly stock and I don't plan on ever adding more power. I am afraid that an FD is not the best starter autox car however I am grateful for it. It loses traction in 2nd gear pretty damn easily so I'll just have to keep "going slow to go fast" in mind. My tires are only v rated so that could be interesting. Looking forward to having fun. Not worried about proving anything. My biggest concern is losing the track and getting lost. I do not have a boost controller so I'm stuck with 11 psi.
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Old 08-25-11, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by adamrs80 View Post
Thanks to all for your advice. My car is nearly stock and I don't plan on ever adding more power. I am afraid that an FD is not the best starter autox car however I am grateful for it. It loses traction in 2nd gear pretty damn easily so I'll just have to keep "going slow to go fast" in mind. My tires are only v rated so that could be interesting. Looking forward to having fun. Not worried about proving anything. My biggest concern is losing the track and getting lost. I do not have a boost controller so I'm stuck with 11 psi.
crappy tires are the best to learn on. The less grip aid you have the better you learn to be smooth. If you can extract every drop of performance from those tires, then you will appreciate the move up to a performance tire and only get faster.
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Old 08-26-11, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue1986 View Post
crappy tires are the best to learn on. The less grip aid you have the better you learn to be smooth. If you can extract every drop of performance from those tires, then you will appreciate the move up to a performance tire and only get faster.
After racing on $48.00 Sumitomo tires for the last six years, I've finally purchased my first set of race tires. I'll be trying them out this weekend.
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Old 08-26-11, 05:32 AM
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-Memorize the course beforehand. If you get lost, you're ruined.

-After leaving the gate, stay in 2nd gear and off the clutch for the rest of the run. If you're dropping out of boost in sharp corners, try to follow a wider line that carries more speed.

-Launch HARD, to get the car up to speed rapidly.

-Get a feel for how big your car is, and get really close to those cones. It will create a shorter racing line, more speed, and less steering input.

And personally, I like to overdrive the car, and reign things back to get dialed in. Spinning the car is not detrimental like it can be at a track, aside from a ruined run.
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Old 08-26-11, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu View Post
After racing on $48.00 Sumitomo tires for the last six years, I've finally purchased my first set of race tires. I'll be trying them out this weekend.
funny you say that, I always point new drivers to the Sumitomo HTR ZII. Its economical, provides nice grip levels wet and dry, VERY consistant in its handling and recovers easy. I run those as my road tires for all my track cars and then swap on the RE-11's at the track.
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Old 08-29-11, 06:54 AM
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New race rubber is amazing. I beat every single car at the event. Unbelievable.

Blue 1986- I was running the HTR 200s, which I thought were a great tire for the price. They were 215/50/13s. After having to go to some skinny tires for daily driving, the shop through on some Falken Sinceras in 175 width, and the grip of these skinny tires far excedes that of the much wider Sumitomos. Very funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_pVYnbxkzk
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Old 08-29-11, 10:55 AM
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wow, a 28 second course, thats pretty cool. Dont think Ive ever been to an autoX that short. Does not leave a lot of room for error as theres nowhere to make up time once you do. And those curbs come up fast...

tires that are too wide can cause a ton of drag and require a lot more steering effort. Driving on those 175's on track must feel interesting. Very light wheel and tire combo.
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Old 08-29-11, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu View Post
New race rubber is amazing. I beat every single car at the event. Unbelievable.
Congrats, that is one very quick autox FB you have there. I have never seen one negotiate a course as well as that.
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Old 08-29-11, 09:28 PM
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That video makes me miss my old FB. If I end up getting into autox I may have to find another one.
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Old 08-30-11, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jkstill View Post
Congrats, that is one very quick autox FB you have there. I have never seen one negotiate a course as well as that.
Thanks man! I've really got to tighten up the steering box though. I just installed a lower mileage unit, but haven't adjusted it yet and it has about 1 1/2" of free play. lol. You can really tell right before I cross the finish, where it looks like I'm about to turn to the right all of a sudden. That's just me taking up the slack in the steering. lmao.

Once I get that taken care of, I'll be able to be a lot more precise and stick closer to the cones.
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Old 10-23-11, 09:55 PM
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Did my first Autocross event last weekend. Here is a video of my last run which was my best. It was a lot of fun and I plan on trying to attend one event a month. I ended up running 32psi in the rear and 35 up front. That advice came from an S2000 guy I rode with who, if nothing else was an excellent driver. The tire wear was right on the edge of the indicators on the dunlops so I think it worked fine. My suspension is completely stock. I know the best "mod" would be driver experience but at the same time I would like to have a good suspension setup. Any advice on sway-bars or anything else. I do have a front strut tower brace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moTX5Yg9QPE
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Old 10-24-11, 01:50 PM
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Looks like a great start! You seem to have the basic idea of what kind of line to take, you just need to go faster. I can tell your tires were very challenged though, judging by the sound and when they were making it, I'd guess you were underinflated by at least 5 psi at both ends.

And you're right, the fd is not the ideal car to learn with. Throttle modulation and learning the ins & outs of turbo/turbo lag is where you're going to want to focus.

Remember, as long as you had a good time, you won...
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Old 10-24-11, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu View Post
Looks like a great start! You seem to have the basic idea of what kind of line to take, you just need to go faster. I can tell your tires were very challenged though, judging by the sound and when they were making it, I'd guess you were underinflated by at least 5 psi at both ends.

And you're right, the fd is not the ideal car to learn with. Throttle modulation and learning the ins & outs of turbo/turbo lag is where you're going to want to focus.

Remember, as long as you had a good time, you won...
Finally a sport where everyone is a winner! All the hippies can rejoice.

Seriously though, I appreciate your feedback. I think it was the most fun I've had since I was a kid.

I'm going to try upping the tire pressure next time.I'll definitely do more research on tire pressure before the next event. How does higher pressure improve traction? I've been thinking about getting a set of Racing Beat anti-sway bars and seeing how that works. Maybe some springs and tokicos or konis or whatever is recommended. I probably will never go the coilover route, I'd prefer to keep the car closer to stock. I would still like the car to be somewhat pleasant to drive on the road.
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Old 10-25-11, 02:26 AM
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I think the Tripoint front sway bar is the best... AutoX and track. I run one as well as all the uber fast SSM AutoX guys. I'd keep the stock rear. The Racing Beat rear is larger than stock. Any of the midrange coilovers would be fine I think. I ran the Tein HA's, and later the Tein Flex's(and just put them on my street FD) on my car on the street on full soft settings and it wasn't too bad. Prior to that I had Eibach springs with Tokico Illumina's. Not much of a difference in ride quality. With the coilovers, you also have the ability to adjust height as necessary, which is nice. All what you want. I've had various coilovers on FD's of mine over the years, and any of the mass produced units are fairly similar... 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. Springs and struts will be cheaper though.

Tripoint Front bar, stock Rear, midrange coilover, and a good alignment... you'll think you're superman at the AutoX and still have what I consider a streetable car.
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Old 10-25-11, 09:04 PM
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Thanks for the advice on the suspension setup. I saw you and your car on page 64 in Grassroots Motorsports. Congratulations on being the fastest Mazda. Grateful to get advice from a pro. I was pretty pumped about the tri-point anti-sway bar and then I saw the price. I am certain that you get what you pay for though. Is there a traditional non-adjustable anti-sway that is worth looking at? If not I will save up. At this point I would like to not have too much to tinker with as my car is still somewhat showroom stock and nearly show worthy. Is the adjustment necessary for a guy like me?

Right now my plan is to go to every monthly SASCA event in San Antonio. I know the Austin Spokes club sometimes joins our events. If of ever head to one of those, please let me know. If I ever go to a track event somewhere in TX, I'll PM you ahead of time.
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Old 10-26-11, 12:38 AM
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Thanks! Hardly a pro though. Just trying to live the dream the best I can and thankful for the track time I get. I've had a few different non adjustables over the year and they work well(and better than stock), just not as well as the tripoint. It is something that I have never quantified with data though. Keep an eye out for a used Tripoint bar as they come up for sale every now and again(or PM Fritz, he may have one). You'd prob. be fine with one of the non adjustables.

The other main piece of this are your sway bar mounts. The stockers are known for cracking, bending, and/or breaking I've heard widefoot isn't really around anymore, but his product is second to none. Try shooting him a PM on here(I think his SN is Widefoot Racing). If you get ahold of him, get a gas pedal pedal extender as well. They $30-$40(maybe more with inflation) and really make heel/toe much easier. If you can't get a set of widefoots, check on rhdjapan.com 's website as there are a couple of japanese companies that make similar products.
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