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FD brakes early fading. help!

Old 07-18-04, 05:05 PM
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FD brakes early fading. help!

after running the FD on the track for the first time i was quite alarmed how quickly the brakes faded. 1st lap 3rd corner the brakes were cooked. the fluid was dot 4 and i changed it before the race, the discs are standard (unsure on type of brake pads). i can only assume the pads are crap.

here are my plans for the next race
1. Bendix ultimate pads F&R
2. Slotted rotors F&R
3. hook up some form of front brake ducting
4. dot 5 fluid

Anything else i should look into? Any tips on setting up brake ducts?

Thanks
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Old 07-18-04, 05:15 PM
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I don't think slotted rotors will help a whole lot. The biggies are putting in some track specific pads at the track, good fluid and if you can do a good brake ducting system then by all means do so!
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Old 07-18-04, 05:57 PM
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Slotted not worth the cash. Go for some TRACK only pads, were they perform their best when HOT, and look and search for people that have made brake ducts.
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Old 07-18-04, 06:22 PM
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I strongly recommend a set of track ONLY pads such as the Hawk Blue. That should solve your problem. Ducting is a fun idea but I think your MAIN problem is the pads.
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Old 07-18-04, 07:18 PM
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ok, thanks.

i had a read through a few other posts and it most certainly seems to be the pads. i shall look into getting some race pads. for those of you who use your cars for street; when you change the pads back for street use do you use the same discs?

now to really show those rx8 kids
Attached Thumbnails FD brakes early fading. help!-1.jpg  
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Old 07-18-04, 09:29 PM
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most people I know keep the same brake rotors and just change the pads at the track.

if you choose to go with hawk blues, do a forum search about how to preserve your rims. the dust from those pads is slightly corrosive and will discolor your rims if they are not protected.

btw, which DOT-4 fluid were you using?

-bill
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Old 07-18-04, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ORX705
ok, thanks.

i had a read through a few other posts and it most certainly seems to be the pads. i shall look into getting some race pads. for those of you who use your cars for street; when you change the pads back for street use do you use the same discs?

now to really show those rx8 kids
It IS your pads, yes use the same rotors. Check for warpage after the track event and make sure you bed the pads in correctly. There is an article on sport compact (just came out) that has a silver supra, it has some good info about brakes , talks about the STI adn EVO and their brakes and upgrades etc etc.
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Old 07-18-04, 09:47 PM
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Was the fade caused by overheated pads or overheated fluid?

Overheated pads will leave a firm pedal but with reduced bite on the rotor. When this happens the brake pedal still feels nice and firm but the car won't slow. A higher temp pad will help here.

Overheated fluid will leave a soft pedal that may go to the floor or need to be pumped. When this happens getting more cooling air to the brakes or a higher temp fluid will help.
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Old 07-18-04, 11:45 PM
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the pedal was very firm but with a lot less bite.

the pedal remains firm however i will change the fluid to motul dot 5. i was using castrol dot 4

i understand its the pads in this case but you think slotted discs are a waste of money?
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Old 07-19-04, 01:19 AM
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I have the turboimport.com setup (slotted and dimpled rotors with PBR pads) and it worked alright with me at Buttonwillow. I did however flush and use Motul 600 jsut before so that probably something to do being able to predict brake-behavior.
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Old 07-19-04, 06:20 AM
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I'm using ATE Super Blue brake fluid and I can boil it on the track in a couple of laps. I think its my pads transferring too much heat to the caliper pistons and heating up the fluid too much.

I'm going with some custom made brake pads as my next set. If that doesnt do the trick, then I will need to make some ducting for the brakes
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Old 07-19-04, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ORX705
the pedal was very firm but with a lot less bite.
Definitely overheated pads.


Originally Posted by ORX705
you think slotted discs are a waste of money?
No, slotted discs are not a waste of money. If you're only running at the track on occasion and on street tires there's not a big need for them IMO. Just stay away from any disc that is drilled if you plan to do much track time.
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Old 07-19-04, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Definitely overheated pads.
No, slotted discs are not a waste of money. If you're only running at the track on occasion and on street tires there's not a big need for them IMO. Just stay away from any disc that is drilled if you plan to do much track time.
Slotted rotors have also been known to crack...
Drilled = bad -- cast with holes = good
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Old 07-21-04, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bond007
Slotted rotors have also been known to crack...
Drilled = bad -- cast with holes = good
I've actually heard that even cast with holes rotors should be avoided as well, as there is still area for cracks to form
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Old 07-21-04, 04:59 PM
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There is seriously something wrong with your brakes if you are fading them on the FIRST lap, THIRD corner. Even a completely stock brake system with 10-year old brake fluid should do better than that.

The last time I was at Buttonwillow, I did manage to melt a set of HPS pads (with ATE Super Blue fluid) but that took many laps. When I was slower, it took several laps for me to even notice fade on the stock brakes.
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Old 07-21-04, 05:25 PM
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ok we know it is the pads overheating. so the problem is not enough heat dispersion or some seriously **** pads (which is still what i suspect). there are no brake ducts attached, but i know the some s6 didn't come with brake ducts.

the 3rd corner on thsi particular track is amongst some fairly heavy braking. i am only amateur too, so i use my brakes a lot. but yes i agree 1st lap shouldn't be much of a problem.

i have better pads and front slotted rotors coming in, will see how it goes next time.
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Old 07-24-04, 12:26 AM
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For those with fluid boiling problems, you might want to check that you are using the shims (e.g. the FD uses two shims on the back of each front pad). It seems like the shims would help reduce the amount of heat transferred from the pads to the pistons and then to the fluid.

-Max
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Old 07-25-04, 01:52 PM
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Shims... taking off my front brake pads I found out there is only 1 shim on all pads. Grrrr...

Can you manufacture your own or must they be original stuff ?

Seems logical to me that additional shim could help disperse the heat.
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Old 07-25-04, 08:53 PM
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Look at the big brake kit at the "suspension, wheel and steering section"
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Old 07-26-04, 12:53 AM
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Big brakes require 17" rims at the track and I only want to use stock ones for those purposes
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Old 07-26-04, 09:48 AM
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Unless you are running some serious HP and speed (which I don't believe our poster is) the stock brake system on an FD (running track pads and fresh high-temp brake fluid) is more than sufficient for most track usage.

Find and fix the *real* problem and fix it first before you go off and throw $$ away on something that may not even be an issue.

-bill
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Old 07-26-04, 04:43 PM
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Having raced my FD both with and without shims I really don't think that shims made a difference in heat transfer.
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Old 07-27-04, 06:54 PM
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no i agree, i'm not spending $4000 plus on brakes on essentially a stock car. i raced a r33 skyline on the same track, although heavier i had no problems. i wouldn't say the brakes on the skyline was anything special either (note: we're not talking GTR brembo brakes here).

anyway, i changed all 4 pads and replaced the front discs with slotted items. adding some factory brake ducts as well.
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Old 07-29-04, 01:57 PM
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Stop dragin the brake pedal ...lol..j/k. change your pads and try it again
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Old 08-22-04, 10:38 PM
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just an update. took the car to track over the weekend and the brakes were great!!! and i was fairly cruel to them too. they lasted the 6 laps

all i had achnged were to front slotted discs, and bendix ultimate pads all round. also added the factory brake ducts.
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