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FB for CSP, manual steering box, or de-powered power box?

Old 12-29-08, 05:16 PM
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OH FB for CSP, manual steering box, or de-powered power box?

I have a 85 GSL that I am setting up for CSP, and it currently has factory power steering. Wondering if I am better off depowering the box it has, or buying a manual box to lose some weight. I think I read the PS box has a faster ratio.

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 12-30-08, 07:05 AM
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Anyone confirm if the ratios are different (power is a faster box)?

Jason
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Old 12-30-08, 08:04 AM
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The power box is a quicker ratio (15-1 vs. 17:1). I have the power steering box with no pump in my CSP car and it is much better than the non P.S. box.
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Old 12-30-08, 09:14 AM
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I have the stock manual box in mine, and it sucks big time. You're lucky, because you are already halfway there. Just loop the lines together and remove the pump and you'll be all set...


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Old 12-30-08, 04:02 PM
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If you want to drive mine, let me know. Mine's got about 230k on it so it's pretty well worn out, but you can still get a feel for how heavy it is to drive.

I think I went a whole two months before I took the manual box out of the current car and put in the power box!

Once they start salting the roads again, the car will be laid up until April-ish, so get back to me ASAP if you're interested. (Ohiorotaries is a much easier place to get hold of me)
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Old 12-30-08, 04:15 PM
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Thanks for the info. I thought it was a better box. I know with racks that are converted, people loop the lines and fill with fluid, so I'll do the same.

Peejay, thanks for the offer. I should be good with it, as I have no problem turning the wheel now with the engine off and the car sitting still.

Jason
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Old 12-30-08, 08:57 PM
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Not to be a downer, but de-powered racks aren't technically CSP legal. You can do a manual rack through update/backdate, but there are no allowances in the SCCA SP rules for P/S rack de-powering.
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Old 12-30-08, 11:49 PM
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My autox only RX-7 has PS. My '84 which I sometimes autox does not. The box on my '84 is still pretty decent and I don't have any problems not having it. Others who drive it occasionally usually comment on how heavy the steering is. Personally, I think it's whatever you get used to.
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Old 12-31-08, 07:13 AM
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Fault, I would think it would fit in to the update/backdate rule. If I had a manual car, I could put just the power box in without the pump, as it is not an item that needs to be replaced as a "whole unit." I'm just reversing it, but it's the same principal.

Jason
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Old 12-31-08, 07:41 AM
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I don't know about auto-x, but in the GCR for IT Club Racing running a de-powered rack is verboten. You can either run a full manual rack or a full PS system. The "unit" for replacement in this case is defined as the complete PS system, incl the pump.

That's just a datapoint. Like I said, I'm not sure about the specifics of the GCR for Auto-x.
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Old 12-31-08, 03:57 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure to look in to it further.

Jason
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Old 12-31-08, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wrxracer55 View Post
Fault, I would think it would fit in to the update/backdate rule. If I had a manual car, I could put just the power box in without the pump, as it is not an item that needs to be replaced as a "whole unit." I'm just reversing it, but it's the same principal.

Jason
Unfortunately, no. The law of the rulebook is that if it does not explicitly say that you can do it, then you can't. A de-powered rack (regardless of how it's de-powered) is *not* a standard manual rack in the eyes of the rulebook. To be completely legal you would need to have either the manual rack or the complete P/S rack, pump and associated hoses/belts. There is no provision in the SP ruleset for altering steering components outside of straight UD/BD of parts.
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Old 12-31-08, 11:19 PM
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From the 2008 SCCA Solo rule book:
15.1.C
Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if (a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken, and (b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes). The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. Standard factory installation methods, locations, and configurations are allowed. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not be updated/backdated until approved by the SEB and published in the official SCCA publication.
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Old 12-31-08, 11:28 PM
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The rule says "item." I'd interpret that to mean that I could grab just the box as long as I don't alter, modify, machine, or change it. By not adding the rest of the system, you do alter/change the original function but that's not part of the rule.

If you want a for sure answer, email the question to [email protected].
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Old 01-01-09, 07:53 AM
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IIDSYCTYC - If it doesn't say you can, then you can't.

Specifically, the second sentence in 15.1.c would preclude you from changing how the rack was mounted to the rest of the system, including the plumbing.

But yes, you should email the SCCA if you have questions.
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Old 01-01-09, 08:55 AM
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Gotta love rules interpretation. I put a post out on SCCA forums. I'll let you know what I hear.

Jason
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Old 01-01-09, 11:33 AM
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SCCAforums are just a bunch of guys/gals like us. There will be a difference of opinions - just like Bill and I. Email SCCA for official clarifications.
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Old 01-01-09, 05:14 PM
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I sent them an email. We'lls ee what they say.

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 01-02-09, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by slowautoxr View Post
Others who drive it occasionally usually comment on how heavy the steering is. Personally, I think it's whatever you get used to.
I don't understand this. The manual steering box is lighter in feel than most modern cars that have power steering!

The funny thing is, at least with stock sized tires, the unpowered P/S IS kinda stiff to drive... until you remove the pump and its enormously heavy bracket. After that weight removal, the steering feels pretty good. Apparently the power assist is only required in order to deal with the added weight of the power assist.
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Old 01-02-09, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by peejay View Post
I don't understand this. The manual steering box is lighter in feel than most modern cars that have power steering!

The funny thing is, at least with stock sized tires, the unpowered P/S IS kinda stiff to drive... until you remove the pump and its enormously heavy bracket. After that weight removal, the steering feels pretty good. Apparently the power assist is only required in order to deal with the added weight of the power assist.

LOL, thanks for the info. I'm waiting for a response from the SCCA, and will go from there.

Jason
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Old 01-05-09, 01:31 PM
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Heard from the SCCA, depowering is illegal, need to swap in a manual box.

Jason
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Old 01-06-09, 11:49 AM
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Sweet! So my car has to run in F/Prepared no matter what. Might as well do the 3-link
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Old 01-06-09, 12:05 PM
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3 link setup is legal for SP. And now you can remove the upper link when you do.
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Old 01-06-09, 01:14 PM
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Yep, it's legal. Just have to keep the lower arms stock.
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Old 01-06-09, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by slowautoxr View Post
3 link setup is legal for SP. And now you can remove the upper link when you do.
I still haven't installed my tri-link/panhard setup yet. I should get off my *** and do it, but she handles so good already its hard to justify the time for installation... I've heard some great things about it, but I just have to wonder how good can it really get? lol...
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