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EP or ITA class car build questions?

Old 05-06-13, 01:42 PM
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EP or ITA class car build questions?

I am building a race car. I want to race EP class or ITA depending on SCCA rule definitions that are a bit confusing to me. One question is about my roll cage. Since my car has a sunroof there is a lot of extra roof support metal that I want to cut out so I can tuck my cage up higher so I can meet the helmet must be 2" under cage rule. Can I cut metal out there?
Another issue is with carburetor . I want to run a Weber 48 on my rally ported ceramic built 12A? Wondering if the carb size fits these class specs?
Thanks for any info....Adam12A
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Old 05-06-13, 02:59 PM
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Old 05-06-13, 03:08 PM
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there was an article about a guy that double dipped with IT-7 and EP. and was nationally competitive at EP as he had won a few. i believe it was grassroots or sports car. the guy was an older gent who died in a crash at an event. i believe it was medical issues before the crash that caused it.

i think he swapped out the front nose to one with an EP air dam and plitter. ITA is more lax vs IT7
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Old 05-06-13, 04:28 PM
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Anyone have links to complete builds?
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Old 05-07-13, 06:36 PM
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No way an IT7 or ITA car would be Nationally competitive in EP. It might luck into a win if nobody else is running the class.

Can't run a weber 48 or do any porting in IT. Street port and Weber is fine in EP.

The 2" rule is for open cars. Put the cage as high as you can in the car and don't worry about it. Be careful not to remove too much metal, you might run into other rules. You can remove Everything related to the sunroof though.
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Old 05-07-13, 06:44 PM
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Not a link to a complete build, but you can buy this car and save yourself time, money and hassle

prodracing.com • View topic - Bob Neal's #08 E/p 1St Gen Rx7 F/S "PRICE REDUCED" AGAIN !!!

Here is Mazdatrix EP vert. Lots of pictures so you get an idea..
E/P Convertible
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Old 05-08-13, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wlfpkrcn View Post
Not a link to a complete build, but you can buy this car and save yourself time, money and hassle

prodracing.com • View topic - Bob Neal's #08 E/p 1St Gen Rx7 F/S "PRICE REDUCED" AGAIN !!!

Here is Mazdatrix EP vert. Lots of pictures so you get an idea..
E/P Convertible
yeah Bob's car is really dialed, the smart man would buy that
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Old 05-08-13, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wlfpkrcn View Post
Not a link to a complete build, but you can buy this car and save yourself time, money and hassle

prodracing.com • View topic - Bob Neal's #08 E/p 1St Gen Rx7 F/S "PRICE REDUCED" AGAIN !!!

Here is Mazdatrix EP vert. Lots of pictures so you get an idea..
E/P Convertible
I don't think I'd pay to buy a car that claims an 80k build. (I'm sorry but that's ridiculous). I am building the car myself, I don't need to send it off for a lot of expensive services that I can probably accomplish at home. Plus those ridiculous paint jobs and over priced wheels don't make a car any more competitive. Sorry not trying to burn but I'll build my car for less than buying that one used
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Old 05-08-13, 10:12 PM
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That's where the national level EProd cars are at. I think the struts on that car alone are in the $10k neighborhood. I think I heard that Dave Lemon's convertible went through an engine rebuild every race weekend or so. Guy I know is building a completely new car because he wants to try to make the lap times a different way. Seriously, if you're farming out fab and engine building I can easily, easily see 80k.

At top build levels, IT and Prod have the same suspension layout, but Prod is running different spring rates because of slicks instead of DOT-Rs, and can run canister shocks, and are running widebody stuff. The 1st gen in Prod is also running aftermarket front hubs with racing rotors because of the failure rate of the stock rotors. Cage layout is completely different - IT legislates a maximum number of chassis attachment points and Prod doesn't. The level of material stripped out of the chassis is different, all the glass is replaced with lexan, etc. The engine build level is vastly different and more expensive both in purchase and maintenance cost, the transmission likewise (the Mazda boxes are pretty marginal at Prod horsepower levels, but the alternative is full race dogboxes - the least expensive of which I know of that's available new is done by friends of mine who made it because of lack of available inexpensive solutions, and it's 7k) and even the clutches are expensive. And the whole build is just a lot of work, far more than an IT car.

If you're fine building a car that won't have the potential to be at the front of a competitive field you can do an EP car for less money but, well, know what you're in for.
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Old 05-09-13, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam12A View Post
I don't think I'd pay to buy a car that claims an 80k build. (I'm sorry but that's ridiculous)
it isn't if you run the thing for a few seasons. we race an integra, built in 2004, and we've done Honda challenge, TT/PT, and three 25 hours, and if you totaled up the receipts we're in it 60k+ easily.

and its just a POS honda!

to do a 25 hour race it NEEDS a new engine, transmission, ALL the bearings, ball joints, axles, alternator, distributor, some cardboard, a roll of duct tape, and a roll of clear tape..

on a honda the duct tape is structural
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Old 05-09-13, 03:47 PM
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If you're fine building a car that won't have the potential to be at the front of a competitive field you can do an EP car for less money but, well, know what you're in for.[/QUOTE]
To be honest I don't need my car to have $10k worth of struts. Tokiko Illumina is plenty fine. I'm going to run an upgraded trans with Miata gearing, RB Flywheel, a sprung 4puck and an LSD. But that's mostly it. I think the motor will be the biggest challenge going all ceramic, so it should very expensive but reliable. Or maybe I just throw in the towel on this stupid rich mans sport and just race motorcycles like a real athlete
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Old 05-09-13, 03:55 PM
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Why do people want to race for 24 hours? You must be on meth or something. Sounds dangerous driving while exhausted is like driving drunk. Personally 30 minutes of racing at a time is more than enough.
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Old 05-09-13, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam12A View Post
Why do people want to race for 24 hours? You must be on meth or something. Sounds dangerous driving while exhausted is like driving drunk. Personally 30 minutes of racing at a time is more than enough.
we had 5 drivers, and a 30 person crew, so we did driver changes, and tire changes and shoot we even did a frame pull during the race.

don't do this at home (we broke a tow strap), but car set its fastest lap AFTER the pull

so its awesome actually, if you haven't done a long enduro, you're missing out.

pics are here Welcome to whyAfoto.com : Cars
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Old 05-09-13, 11:21 PM
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You do not know racing until you have done an Enduro. FYI- Racing is dangerous regardless of sprint or Enduro.

Fir the record you cannot build an EP car in your garage for 22k.
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Old 05-10-13, 03:03 AM
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That should say- you cannot build Bob's EP car in your garage for $22k
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Old 05-10-13, 03:08 AM
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Well thanks for the info guys. I'm over it. To expensive and an IT car is too slow for my blood. Guess I'll race bikes and just keep this car for track days.
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Old 05-10-13, 03:17 PM
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just between you me and the wall, EP doesn't look like it would be very fun, it seems like the work/racing/money ratio isn't very good.

IT should be better, because car is cheaper, and simpler.
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Old 05-10-13, 04:48 PM
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Look at mustanghammer's STU build.
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Old 05-10-13, 08:03 PM
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EP is fine if you like the process of spending years refining the thing, adding more money here and there to finally get it closer and closer... but it's really like, one of the top non-tube-frame classes in terms of modifications in SCCA, and not a cheap one because of the areas where the rules are restrictive and open. It's not a good place to start unless you're loaded. Then again, I don't know that any nationals level SCCA car would be inexpensive.

Personally I'm looking long and hard at STU myself.
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Old 05-11-13, 10:36 AM
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EP is a very fun class, but unless you want to be a back marker you have to enjoy working on the car and be okay with a giant never ending money pit.
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Old 05-12-13, 11:11 PM
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I would rather lose fast than win slow
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Old 05-13-13, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam12A View Post
I would rather lose fast than win slow
Sounds like you haven't raced much. Or at all. By using real race shocks, you can
lower you lap times faster then pouring money into your motor. Unless you don't have driving talent.
A good close race at any speed is better then fast running all alone. But to each his own.

I've been around and have seen Bob's cars. They are nothing but the best. But understand that's a bit of a commitment. But if you look at me. I started a econo build on a 1500.00 Spec7 car (got a killer deal). I've put 4000.00 into it just to get it up to speed in my class (NASA PTE). It's faster then ITA but slower then EP. But to get to the top of the podium more often. I need to go to the next step. That's another 3000.00. Mind you, I do all my own work, so I've saved over 10,000k in labor.

What most people that have not raced, to win, don't understand. Is you don't just put on a go fast part. You have to fit it 2, 3 or more times to get it to work right with everything it's working with.
Street/track cars don't have rules. So It's easy just to make it look like it's fast.

k, I'm over my rant.
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Old 05-13-13, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam12A View Post
I would rather lose fast than win slow
TT is the class for you! you can do anything you want to the car
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Old 05-13-13, 11:54 AM
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I agree fellas I don't have a lot of experience other than times a take my cars out to the canyon to rip. Though my dilemma is the motor is already overbuilt for anything less. I am doing all the labor myself as well. Although I plan to start off with Tokiko Illumina and race springs, down the road I will do the Re-Speed suspension conversions. I'm only saying in no way do I agree that I will ever spend anywhere even remotely as much as Bob. I understand the skepticism though.
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Old 05-13-13, 04:21 PM
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Look into the NASA classes, or look into SCCA's STU. STU for a 1st gen RX-7 is essentially IT with looser suspension, drivetrain and brake rules, and with EP engine rules... which honestly sounds sort of like how you want to build the car anyway. Because they're still running DOT tires, at least locally they seem to get put into the same race groups as bigger IT stuff. EP on the other hand (at least with who we run with) gets stuck into the same race group as GT-1 and other tube chassis go-fast stuff. So for more or less the same car, it would work out to a difference between having something that could run midpack in a class that's at the pointy end of its race group, or something that would be towards the back of the pack in a class that's the slowest in its race group. Getting passed by GT-1 cars doesn't seem fun.
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