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E-stock GSL-SE setup questions.

Old 10-13-04, 12:45 AM
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Question E-stock GSL-SE setup questions.

I need to freshen up my suspension as the car has 145k on it.
I'm looking for recommendations for ES legal replacement parts.
Here is a list of parts I am thinking of useing.

Poly bushings from mazdatrix.
Tokico 5 way struts/shocks.
Retain stock front sway bar.
RB power pulse muffler.

I am on a major shoestring budget and is will take a bit to save up for everything.
Any suggestions would help.

Also, anyone know where I can get the injectors rebuilt cheaply?
And also an inexpensive way to decarbonize the engine?
I'm always looking for free HP.

Thanks.

Devon
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Old 10-15-04, 08:36 AM
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Sounds like the suspension is covered. Cant really do any more in ES anyway. I'd run the tokicos on full hard up front, and maybe start at 2 on the back and experiment from there.

Look in the first gen section on decarbonizing a rotary. Vipernicus42 wrote an excellent article. I believe youll find the link in the FAQ thread.
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Old 10-15-04, 11:27 AM
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Those poly bushings are illegal. Non-stock bushings of any type are not allowed in any stock class.
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Old 10-15-04, 11:59 AM
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Get the crash bolts for a little more camber. For exhaust just get a light straight pipe from the cat-back made up. Like Damon said no non-stock bushings. Pick up some Hawk HP+ or HP brake pads.
There is a guy on mirotaryclub.com selling an Addco front sway bar for a 1rst gen. It has been for sale for awhile he may give you a good deal.
Pick up some Falken Azenis if your region has a street tire ES or some Kumho v700-710s or Hoosier A3SO4s if you want to put the $ into it.

Also a 4-5 point harness belt makes a big difference in helping you control the car when the Gs go up.

Also(my mind is just whirling today),look at the STS2 rule set. If my 86 GXL was not already stripped and in F Prepared I would build to that class.

Last edited by finky; 10-15-04 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 10-15-04, 06:58 PM
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I'm already running the Azenis.
I'll have to experiment with the shocks before I decide if I want a bigger fron sway bar.
I'm fighting understeer now as it is and have no desire to make the problem worse.

Anyone know who sells the cheapest OEM suspension bushings?
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Old 10-15-04, 08:02 PM
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Mazdaspeed. sign up for cheap parts.
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Old 10-15-04, 10:14 PM
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A K&N air filter should give you a little more power.
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Old 10-16-04, 01:55 AM
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Right. I signed up at mazdaspeed and am waiting for membership approval.

The shocks are in the mail and I'm excited to try them out. It will be nice to have another thing to help balance the car besides tire pressure.

I don't think I can run a cat back straight pipe because we have a pretty severe noise limit in place. How loud do you think it would be? I think our noise limit it 85db @ 50ft.

What the heck are crash bolts, where the flerm can I get them and are the smerfin things legal in a stock class. I couldn't find anything about them in the rules.

Almost forgot about the filter.
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Old 10-16-04, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by elron90sc5speed
What the heck are crash bolts, where the flerm can I get them and are the smerfin things legal in a stock class.
"Crash bolts" are frequently available for cars with strut suspensions. Basically the crash bolt is thinner in diameter than the stock bolts so when used in the slotted portion of the strut where the upright attaches it allows a greater amount of negative camber adjustment. This is a good thing if the car needs more negative camber. They are called crash bolts because the dealer uses them in cases where an accident leaves some frame damage and the added adustability is needed to get the alignment back into spec.

As for getting them I suspect the dealer.

Are they legal in stock? Depends. If in the factory manual supplied to dealers for the repair of that car crash bolts are recommended for use in some cases then they are legal for that car. If the dealer tech manual does not mention their use than crash bolts are illegal for that car in stock. In the case of the FB I don't know which case is true but I'm sure the hardcore autoxers can say if crash bolts for an FB are legal or not.

By definition not every car in stock can legally use crash bolts. Only those cars whose dealer repair manuals mention using them are allowed to legally use crash bolts.
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Old 10-16-04, 12:21 PM
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the r100/rx2/3/4/5/7 attach the strut right to the steering arm, its not like a "normal" strut car. also they do not list anything like a crash bolt
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Old 10-16-04, 05:12 PM
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You can also run without an air filter in stock. Just make sure your air box is very clean. I am not sure on the exhaust design of the FB but when I ran my FC in CS (yes, it has been a couple years) it was not that loud without a muffler. That also had the precats. Only one way to find out. If they say anything put on a turndown tip. I will ask some of the hard core FB guys tomorrow at the auto X and see what they say about the "smerfin" crash bolts.
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Old 10-16-04, 06:00 PM
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According to what GRM said, as long as they have a factory parts number and are for the correct application, crash bolts are legal.
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Old 10-16-04, 06:38 PM
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I think running without an air filter while it may be legal is just begging for trouble.
As they say, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

As I drive this car on the street as well I thing I'l just stick with the power pulse muffler.

I suppose I can call the dealership Monday about the "crash bolts".

How much negative camber can you get from the factory setup?
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Old 10-17-04, 03:32 AM
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You could buy a brand new stock rear sway bar and get the most rusty and worn stock front sway bar from a junk yard to get some oversteer. Also, brand new rear springs and worn front ones.
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Old 10-17-04, 12:06 PM
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I believe that SA (79-80) rear sway bars will fit and are significantly larger, although I think this would probably lead to corner exiting oversteer and not really help your turn in, also I'm not usre if parts from another year or model are legal. Have you had the car aligned with a bit of toe-out? I ran some toe-out for a few autoXs and I really liked what it did with the steering, but I drive mainly street and it was a little squirrly on the highway. Also you should look at replacing the idler arm bushings, these can wear very quickly because they are close to the exhaust and cause bad steering resonse.
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Old 10-17-04, 03:49 PM
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In all stock classes you can do whatever you wish with the front sway bar: stock, aftermarket, remove it; whatever.

The rear is untouchable however. If there is one from the factory you must use it (can't disconnect it) and you cannot substitute a different year model or option than what the car was equipped with from the factory. If there was no rear bar on your car from the factory then you can't add one either. The rear is untouchable in stock; how it was built is how it must stay.
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Old 10-17-04, 05:29 PM
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I plan on replacing every bushing possible on the suspension.

Still. Can you get any negative camber out of the stock parts?
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Old 10-17-04, 06:44 PM
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FYI- Mazdaspeed sells rubber bushings that are 40% firmer than the stock replacements. It's only cheating if you get caught, it may actually not be cheating. Mazda has been very nice to us racers with part numbers, and legal replacements. You should just come play in STS2 anyway, you're going to get trounced in ES with an FC. The 94-97 Miata's are in that class now. With STS mods you have a better chance and cheaper tires.
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Old 10-17-04, 09:50 PM
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It's an FB (aka GSL-SE) and mt club being so small dosen't run an sts class. Besides I can't afford to modify the car much more than it already is. I'm trying to make it on less than 1K/mo with a kid.
So my goals are to stay as cheap as possible.
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Old 10-18-04, 08:30 AM
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I was in your shoes 2 years ago. I thought do it cheap get the car reliable and then move up a class as money is less of an issue. Well here I am with pretty much a fully built CSP car that I can't comfortably drive on the street anymore that is still getting beat at the regional level. If I were to do it again I don't think I would have started with an FB. But that is what I had and it seemed cheap at the time. Basically I was laying under the car with a hack saw and my co-driver cutting the rusted factory exhaust when we realized that it was more work to build the car to ES than to move up to CSP. If it were only true. It has been fun and I wouldn't trade it for anything at this point but probably not the most economical decision.

My suggestions:

Stay in ES with the mods you mention except the bushings.

There is no such thing as a crash bolt for the FB. You are stuck with the camber you can get. Basically you will rotate the top of the strut. The bolt pattern is off center so if you rotate it to the right position you can get a bit more camber.

The rear suspension pretty much has to be left alone. I actually suggest that you leave all the bushings original back there. As the axle articulates, with the watts link and the geometry of the trailing arms you get to a point where the axle can't rotate anymore. This essentially throws your roll rate to infinity and the weight transfer on the rear of the car goes way up and you are into a snap oversteer situation. With squishy old bushings you will have a little bit more articulation but the overall system will be more sloppy for most situations. It may be a tradeoff between which bushings to replace and which to leave alone. Whatever you don't don't replace all of the bushings on the trailing ams. Only do the bottoms if any.

If there are any good drivers in ES in you region with anything but an FB you will probably be beaten. Miatas with a good driver are impossible to beat the rest are almost as bad. It will be fun though.
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Old 10-18-04, 10:40 AM
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My bad- ES is where you need to be, the LSD keeps you out of STS2. Do what Rotary AutoXer said except check into the MazdaSpeed bushings. I bet a really good driver with a well prepped GSL-SE could still hold their own in ES, at least locally.
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Old 10-18-04, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldPax
. I bet a really good driver with a well prepped GSL-SE could still hold their own in ES, at least locally.
...as long as there aren't any good drivers in MR2's...
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Old 10-18-04, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DamonB
...as long as there aren't any good drivers in MR2's...
Touche
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Old 10-19-04, 02:21 AM
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As for the bushings I didn't realise the poly bushings were illegal and now stand corrected. I plan on remaining in ES with no plans to move up. I have run an ESP T-bird and it is way to expensive to make a car competitative in a street prepared class. And yes we have several excelent drivers in 1st and 2nd gen MR2's and we have fun competing. I can beat them sometimes but usually lose by less than a second. I'm not trying to be nationally competitative just to have fun with my local clubs and continuially improve my racing technique. However I did take 2nd place in ES at the Oregon Shootout (autocross state championships). I lost to a 2nd gen MR2.
It was more fun than should be legal.
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Old 10-21-04, 12:23 AM
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I got my Tokico's today! Guess what I'll be doing this weekend.
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