junito1

Mine are still stock. 180,000++ miles heh. Whats best?

1. Solid eliminates DTSS
2. Poly. Probably gives less toe than OEM
3. Or new OEM because it helps alot of tight corners?

JUst want to see what most roadcourse guys do with theirs and why.

Silkworm

Delrin eliminators

Black91n/a

Most people just eliminate them with eliminators from Racing Beat or something like that, since that's really the only economical option.

wrankin

Although I have not personally experienced this (DTSS was already eliminated on my FC when I bought it) supposedly the DTSS can make the rear *really* twitchy under hard braking due to the change in toe.

Everyone I have talked to has recommended eliminating it to make the car more predictable.

-b

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Note that while Delrin or UMMW works fine, my latest DTSS eliminators from Mazdaspeed were not as tight as they should be. the .001-.003 diametral gap can be felt as slop when the brakes are applies in reverse. The bushings actually slide in the carrier bore since there is no shoulder to restist axial movement. Consider using the versions from Racing Beat or MMR.

junito1

I have heard of the issues under braking. SO i should go solid metal eliminator or other material eliminators?

SCCAITS

iTrader: (3)

The ones I got 2 years ago from Mazdaspeed were aluminum with steel sleeves. I had to press the aluminum in. No issues here.

gkmccready

I have the 12 year old MazdaComp DTSS eliminator bushings... the car hasn't run much in the intervening time... should I be looking at one of the newer solutions?

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

IMHO the best solution is pressed in Al DTSS eliminators. Since there is no movement or wear involved, old spacers should be fine. Newer is not always better.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

New OEM is $1400 or something, if there's even any stock left?

junito1

I read somewhere that mentioned the dtss being used to fix part if a "basic design flaw" in the IRS.

You guys suggest solid aluminum press-in inserts.
ANy of you guys running these?
Did you notice a diff in turning? <-- Details please

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

DTSS was simply a way to make the car safer for your average driver.

An ingenious way.

At about the traction limit of the stock tires the bushing creates toe in that steers the car further into the turn forcing the driver to counter steer to keep the car going in the intended direction.

So it made your average driver counter steer just before the limit of traction just as an expert driver would. Well, a bit earlier than needed, but it got the driver in the habit of counter steer.

Problem is if you increase the level of traction in any way over stock you are now counter steering WAY before it is needed and the amount of counter you have to add keeps constantly varying with the load on the bushing through a single turn.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

But now I have a question on the DTSS system.

I have the DTSS eliminators and that leaves the spherical bearing at the front of the tri-axial hub and a rubber bushing at the lower rear corner.

Does this rubber bushing need to be replaced with a solid one at some point?

Reason I ask is because I have DTSS eliminators with 275/40-17 DOT-R tires and they are about 1/4" from the trailing arm and still rub on hard cornering.

Rims are forged Volk TE-37 that are heavy for their size (built for heavy R33 Skyline?) so I doubt it is rim flex.

I guess it could also be tire sidewall deflection??

I went ahead and used the 275 for auto-x as it was a minor rub on a smooth surface and up on the tread cap.

The next race is a multi-lap one on a cart track with a banked highspeed turn so I went down to 255/40-17 as I know the sustained Gs would make it rub much worse!

Mazdatrix said they use the stock rubber bushing in this position on their race cars with no problems.

I am kicking myself for not trying solid bushings when i had it apart to put the Torsen rear end in and first thought of it...

junito1

I see what you mean. Solid DTSS could lead to worse stress in the remainding IRS bushings?

PLZ more insight.
BlueTII has some good info.

Currently i am running an retarded wheel/tire setup. But makes it look nicer.

Sportmax's with azenis 215's upfront and regular falken 255's in the rear.
I get a lot of under steer during turn in. BUt i make it over steer on the exit.
IT understeers so bad i cant brake boost during a turn. It sits on the rear tires and pushes the front.=/ PURE garbage. I havent been able to perfect my brake boost exits because of it.

BUt im going to buy 2 17x9 rims to squeez 245's upfront.


I want to know if anyone felt an obvious diff. Went the swaped to SOLID DTSS. Good or bad?

HotRodMex

iTrader: (3)

Your geography is wrong. The front part of the tri-axial hub is the DTSS bushing. The top arm contains the rubber bushing. The lower arm contains the pillow ball. For reference, I'm looking at the factory training manual right now.

SCCAITS

iTrader: (3)

And I could not find anyone who made/sold a replacement for that rubber bushing - probably because it's not necessary - but I had a set made at the local machine shop, Delrin with a stainless inner sleeve.

junito1

Ok. SO Al DTSS are the best choice? I was thinking delrin. What about the racing beats? Where would you guys suggest is the better place to get these?


I was also thinking of what other bushings i should change while the sub frame is down.



Back in the game.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

Huh? The TE-37 are one of the lightest wheels around. Or are they a special R33 version?

drago86

The flaw they correct has to do with semi trailing arms, since they are angled and not full trailing arms they impart negative camber and toe out as the suspension compresses and the arm rises. The dtss bushings impart toe in on the outside rear tire to counteract the toe out from the semi trailing arms. Blue t2 has it backwards as to how it works on a stock car, they actually lead to less over steer by correcting the outside rear tires toe out when loaded. What it does on racing slicks after 20 years or ozone exposure is anyone's guess.

drago86

I was thinking about why DTSS could cause instability while braking on the track and have a theory.
Braking causes the rear suspension to uncompress which due to the semi trailing arms causes toe in and positive camber. I'm thinking that on racing tires that the toe in causes enough side load on the dtss bushing to compress them causing EPIC amounts of toe in in the rear, enough to cause the tire to actually slip.

junito1

Dtss and rear control arms should be done together then?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yes, they work together.

junito1

WHat other bushings should be done together with DTSS?

AaronJ

iTrader: (12)

where can u buy aluminum dtss eliminators?

wlfpkrcn

http://store.awrracing.com/products/...-RX%252d7.html