wingsfan

Well, Jeff and I co-drove my car again yesterday at our local autocross. This time we co-drove his car to try to get a direct comparison between the two.

We drove Jeff's car in the morning session and then quickly drove to his house to swap his race tires onto my car to try to get the best comparison we could.

The course consisted of a tight figure 8, a reasonably tight sweeper, a longish straightaway and then two evil, evil turns at the end. All in all it was a nice course and required both good acceleration and handling/braking.

Long story short was that both Jeff and I were faster in my car, but not by much. Jeff was around 0.2s faster, and I was around 05.s faster. Of course, we also both had 4 looks at the course before we even climbed into my car, and Jeff's car was friggen' running out of gas and lurching all over the last half of the run, so it's still not a perfect comparison. I wasted my first run in my car by spinning it like a top through the first hard turn, so I really only had 7 shots at my best time. Something about a slightly different throttle response.

Jeff also missed top time of the day by 0.01s!

All in all a very fun day that I enjoyed immensly. It was the first time I'd driven a rotary powered car since the conversion, so it was really fun to remember how things used to be.

wingsfan

Just for fun afterwards we took our cars to the scales to take some pictures.

My car (94 touring, so the heaviest of the non-auto FDs)in it's race trim (~1/3 tank of gas and stock wheels, no spare, no Bose tube) weighed in at 2860 lbs.

To check the accuracy of the scales Jeff took a picture of me standing on the scale. I weighed in at a spritely 220lbs. For comparisons sake my scale at home says I'm 217.

And then we went back to Jeff's to put my tires back on, tools back in the hatch, and filled her up to see what she normally would weigh. We did the same with Jeff's R1 (with Fikse 17's and 245s on the front, 275s on the back). Jeff weighed in at 2840 lbs fully dressed, while I tipped in at 2960. If I ever get rid of my nonfunctional AC I'd guess I can drop another 40lbs of bracketry and compressor.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

More later but I wanted to point out after we were done we took both cars to the scales...

93 R1 wearing 17" Fikses, full tank of gas 2840lbs.

94 Touring w/17" SSR comps, LS1, full tank of gas, 2960lbs. The car has AC, PS, only missing spare tire and Bose hose. 2960lbs.

This pretty much agrees perfectly with my experience last year with my R1 and a friends 94 Touring with nearly identical mods, 120lb split between the two, on SCCA scales.

It is really safe to say the conversion doesn't add more than 20-40lbs.

We took pics of the cars on the scale and Andrew standing on the scale alone. The scale is right on.

I'd say with a little "development" the LS1 car could be brutally fast. The significant difference between the two cars was the low end torque of the V8. I had no problem blasting out of tight corners and *tweaking* the car's attitude with the throttle.

wingsfan

The forum here is really fighting me on the picture upload. I've essentially duplicated the thread over at tourquecentral, but I'll provide the links in case anyone is curious.

Car in race trim:
http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6764

Me on the scale:
http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6761

Jeff's R1 fully dressed:

http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6762

My car fully dressed:

http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6763

Skeltah

Gotta love that Willamette Valley rain:-)

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Yeah we totalled lucked out. No rain on our runs, it started pouring about 15 min after we left the event.

DamonB

Just wanted to add that I got to ride with wingsfan on course yesterday and drive his car on the street afterwards. I would right now without a doubt put an LS-1 in my car if I could afford it. Maybe that will be some years down the road...

Fact is wingsfan's car feels like an FD in the chassis but it has more thrust than I have ever experienced in that car. This car pulls hard all across the tach. I don't care how big your turbo is, how big your ports or even if you have 3 rotors; no rotary has got the grunt this things does and it gets 33mpg to boot!

I can't find one bad thing to say about this engine conversion. I can't think of any advantage a turbo rotary would have over this engine in an FD.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I think the key comment in your post is "pulls hard across the tach". It doesn't matter if your at 2000 rpm or 4000 rpm, it just pulls, at an auto-x that is exactly what you need.

wingsfan

It's been tuned since you drove it too. Redline is now 6800, and it pulls hardersnf longer.

The tires still suck though.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Any other "issues" that you have fixed in the last 6 months?

I would love to try one of those in an auto cross race ..... (drool, drool)

wingsfan

Not really. There's a list of nagging little details that need to be addressed, but it's hard to fix something when it's not broken. The motivation just isnt there.

As for trying them out at an autocross, there are a few running in Norcal that you might be able to "twist their arm" into running and taking you along.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I remember not putting my foot all the way in it most of the time.

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

I'm planning to put an LS1 in my Tripoint widebody FC for time attack. It's the only way to go and be reliable. Probably make it thru a whole season of club events. hehe. At least that's the hope.

Awesome guys. Can't wait to see how it affects my macpherson chasis.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

Rishie is even converted now ?!?!

Nice job Wingsfan..... your car is pretty sick.. hope mine turns out as nice.

Mine is getting closer to completion... don't have an engine yet... but got all the upgrades BBK, coilovers, '99 RZ rear brakes, Ntech ducts, JimLab bushings, 18" 57Pros, Koyo rad. Local guy making the Kmember/LT headers and other associated parts.... supposed to be ready very very soon. I get the ones after the prototypes...

Just sold $3500 in Buick GN parts... got funds now!

-GNX7

redrotorR1

You should come out to A&M on the 7th. I want to drive it.

I'll trade ya even stevens for runs in the Z06.

-Don

wingsfan

I'd love to, but I don't think I'll have it back together in time.

I took it apart to put in the Cobra IRS and to build some long tube headers to tide me over before I build my turbo kit.

When's the next event after that? If there's an event in early December I can probably make that no problem.

redrotorR1

December is off season for most central Texas auto-x clubs. Last two November events (at Austin area ones worth going to ...) are the 7th with A&M, and the 14th with Spokes. Both are events not be missed. A&M has an enormous lot of grippy concrete that make street tires seem sticky and the last Spokes event will be at SA Raceway ... which has a huge lot with all sorts of room. I remember running an event there and fast times being in the 90 second range.

I'm telling ya, that turbo kit is going to be too much powah!

wingsfan

Can I just "walk up" to either event? I copld probably slap everything back together given the proper motivation. I'd hate to commit to something and bump someone out of a spot if their restricted fields.

KevinK2

I'd go internal for more hp, and maintain all the na advantages.

Wankelguy

Isn't this the blue RX7 that I beat in my Fiesta?

Whizbang

i have a jetta!

Wankelguy

Got a toothpick?

Whizbang

Acually, i do! The good flavored ones!

Wankelguy

Oh it's not for me, it's to get the chunks of Jetta detritus out of my Fiesta's grille.

redrotorR1

Yup.

wingsfan

We'll see what the wife thinks. If she doesn't mind I'll see about finishing the headers, or just slapping it back together with the parts I have on hand.

I'll let you know.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

My vote is no turbo. The great thing about the LS1 installation is that in some ways it actually appears to have MORE space around the motor than the stock engine has.

Going with a turbo kinda makes it a all show, no go car. Packaging will be tight, heat will be difficult to deal with and I can't imagine using all the HP it could make.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

Not to mention that you can build a very High hp n/a ls1. and as you have said to me before Drew, you are upon the 1 year *troublefree of any kind* with the FD. If you add the turbo the gains you got by going here are somewhat lost. As per Jeff's comments, the heat is going to be outragous. and that is why you left in the first place right? Or at least 1 of the reasons

I say just stroke it to 383 like you planned before and if anything put some gas to it. the ls1 responds nicely to it. But with a 383 stroker.....i doubt you'll ever need it

Didn't know you were going with the IRS. should be nice!

redrotorR1

Drew, if the goal is to make the car fast both in a straightline and the around turns, then the turbo kit, IMO, is not a good idea. The car as is need some fairly extensive work to get big meats on the back .... and believe me, you'll be spending a good chunk of change on tires once that car is capable of putting down power. Once you get hooked on sticky tires, you'll never want to race on street tires again. The money spent on a turbo setup will be worth its weight in gold for suspension goodies and sticky rubber.

For auto-x purposes, you're fast approaching the limit of useable HP. Even the 383 might be too much. The Z06 already makes enough power to pretty much break the tires loose wherever you want on course (it's all a matter of your right foot). Making more power is probably not going to help any ... if nothing, I might think about changing gears to better suit the car's strengths. If the car will see some track duty, then you might want to think about making some more top end power ... so long tubes, a custom cam (okay, maybe the 383 for this case), springs, maybe some higher lift rocker arms, and lots of dyno tuning. I'd recommend reinforcing the internals for long periods of track abuse ... kinda one of those "while I'm in here might as well" deals. But also consider that you'll have to start considering a big boy radiator, oil coolers, and a tranny cooler. Of course, those would be WAAYY down the line.

DamonB

I bet wingsfan already realizes all of this and is more interested in the fun factor of the project...