wingsfan

When do I need to register by? I think I've found someone that can take care of the dog for me that day. I can proably swing by your palce butt *** early and we could caravan down there.

wingsfan

Jeff, I'm good for the event. Got all my loose ends covered. I sent you an email about it.

TireSmokin7

Wingsfan, I just want to say thanks for still answering the same questions time and time again. The more I see the V8 conversion the more I love it. Then, when you posted the movie I got chills...WOW! I just love reading how well this conversion works out. The fact that it makes the car able to be driven hard and not worry about a stinkin apex or water seal. Sure the 13B can go long miles but more and more I read another "oops I popped another motor" story the more I lean in the V8 direction. The more the religious rotor guys post on these threads it's just more positive advertising this gets while making themselves look foolish. Thanks for keeping your head and once more showing the facts. I think you did miss on telling about one very important detail though and that’s the wonderful dyno graph you get with a V8. What was the ballpark cost of your conversion? Did you get everything from Hinson? Please post more pics



Thanks again,
Steve

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

What you'll find is the more people modify and track the v8s the more they will pop as well Not trying to defend the rotary just trying to keep it real. I'll never do the v8 conversion myself but if there's a strong running fd out there with one in it and I need a car I won't dismiss it either. I would say on any given weekend at the track some car will loose an engine however I will admit that its usually a forced induction car.

FWIW I was considering getting a t1 vette and 3 out of 5 had rebuilt engines.

wingsfan

Tirsmokin7, I got my cradle, driveshaft, torque arm, bump steer correction, and tranny brace from Brian. I think I was his fourth or fifth "kit". Everything else I fabricated/adapted myself.

I didn't miss the dyno plot. I have one, and it looks similar to the one you posted, just with slightly lower numbers. The engine still isn't tuned, so there is no real point in posting it as someone will almost surely point out that I "could have made those numbers with the rotary", as someone pointed out to their buddies as soon as I was no longer within earshot.

I went to a DSM dyno day just to get a baseline and see where it was at in it's raw form. It's running almost 2 points rich on the AFRs through almost the entire RPM range, and the timing is pulled by around 12* on average. There are some growing pains for sure, but I am certain it will be a strong platform when I am done.

wingsfan

Fritz, I think that's a great point that is lost on quite a few people. Just because there's a piston engine under the hood doesn't mean I've found the magic bullet. People lose their engines all the time racing, and the same laws of physics and thermodynamics apply. Overheat it, or detonate and you will still have problems.

That being said, I think my current setup will withstand quite a bit more abuse and neglect before it would let go. Mainly because of the lack of forced induction, but it is also ten years newer, the fuel computer is OBDII and quite good, and it's inherently less fragile to begin with.

The other thing that I find quite comical is the cavalier attitude that most people have about performing the swap. "Just drop an LS1 in it" is a badly misused phrase. It's slightly more complicated than just changing your oil.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I think the conversion is great for the power and the reliablility increase but I'm sure it cost quite a bit to do it right.

I find most people have a cavalier attitude about most mods until they actually pay someone else or do it themselves Hell my car has been in the shop Since Dec 5th getting a single conversion and a few other things. Its not that its that complicated its just all the prep work etc...Putting a single in correctly is pia I can't imagine what you've been through. Hell look at poor Jimlab although he seems like the kind of guy who probably mows his lawn with scissors and a ruler I think his car could really be one of the best supercars ever created. I just can't wait until he sells it

wingsfan

It cost me a little more than $16K to do everything. Not exactly chump change considering I paid less than that for the car. There are certainly more cost effective ways to go fast. But it was fun

lots of this



and this

wingsfan

OK, I'm getting quite a few inquiries as to specifics of the swap, ranging from "How Difficult?" to "can I get a part number for this?"

So, here's a few buildup threads over at TC.

Pulled the 13brew:
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=15966

New engine arrived:
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=15816

Found a mouse nest in the tranny:

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=15986

Radiator and battery progress:

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=17181

Installing the LS1
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=16716

The pain of what it all cost:

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=18372

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Quite the project for sure. 16k and it looks like you did most of it yourself. Its amazing the size of what came out vs whats going in

TireSmokin7

I just wanted to touch on a few things without trying to start a flame war... First my interest in MY RX-7 is first and foremost a daily driven fun ride that I also enjoy working on, not a trailer queen track rat. With that in mind a fairly stock LS6 can produce 400 pounds of torque with 400HP to the wheels without loosing reliability or longevity. It probably wouldn't bring home any national championships but could/would bring home the groceries and smoke most other daily drivers while doing it. The strengths of the V8's are the weakness of the rotary and vice versa. The rotary can swing wild RPMs that most V8's would float valves and throw rods. The V8 can be driven hard (using torque) without the critical tuning the rotary must maintain even if it's a simple fuel filter change or keeping over 1/4 tank of gas to keep out of the critical lean AFR. The rush I feel from the boost kicking in is a rush partly because of the turbo lag (or the lack of torque) just before. The 410 rear end lets the car be driven to the rotary engines strengths. I have enjoyed the thrill of a built 327ci small block in a 72 Camaro for a good part of my life but as much as I loved that car it could never compare to the level of enjoyment I get from my 93 RX-7. This engine swap may not be as simple as the V8 Vega's we built in the past but it seems for ME the best of both worlds. Hinson's website suggests you could have them install your motor/trans for $6,000 to $9,000. That would leave some nice change to get the motor done in a $15,000 total budget. Plus the security of knowing you'll be using the same motor for years to come.

Steve

wingsfan

A couple of points there. The $6000-$9000 excludes the price of the drivetrain, which by most accounts will cost you around $4000-$5000. That won't make anywhere near 400 at the wheels.

Also, find out how many turnkey conversions Brian has done, how many of those came in around $9K + driveline, and what the timeframe was. I'd guess the answers to those are not too many, not too many, and a long time. They're backlogged with providing the swap hardware to DIYers, so I can only imagine how backlogged they'd be for a turnkey.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with the service they provided, and I hae no doubts that Brian could make you an excellent car. I just have my doubts that he can do the conversion for what you're saying it would cost in a reasonable amount of time. But, I'm not running his business, so what do I know?

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Please do, a FAQ would be great.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

on a side note... i'll be in portland from april 1st to april 15th (in korea right now...) - can i come check out some of you v8 guys' cars? i'm planning on an lt1/ls1 into an FC and i'd like to see one or two conversions in person (and go for a ride...)
thanx
feel free to email me if you dont wanna reply in here

josh18_2k@hotmail.com

wingsfan

Yeah, no problem. Just shoot me a PM when you want to hook up and we'll see what we can arrange.

wingsfan

Well, Jeff and I co-drove my car again yesterday at our local autocross. This time we co-drove his car to try to get a direct comparison between the two.

We drove Jeff's car in the morning session and then quickly drove to his house to swap his race tires onto my car to try to get the best comparison we could.

The course consisted of a tight figure 8, a reasonably tight sweeper, a longish straightaway and then two evil, evil turns at the end. All in all it was a nice course and required both good acceleration and handling/braking.

Long story short was that both Jeff and I were faster in my car, but not by much. Jeff was around 0.2s faster, and I was around 05.s faster. Of course, we also both had 4 looks at the course before we even climbed into my car, and Jeff's car was friggen' running out of gas and lurching all over the last half of the run, so it's still not a perfect comparison. I wasted my first run in my car by spinning it like a top through the first hard turn, so I really only had 7 shots at my best time. Something about a slightly different throttle response.

Jeff also missed top time of the day by 0.01s!

All in all a very fun day that I enjoyed immensly. It was the first time I'd driven a rotary powered car since the conversion, so it was really fun to remember how things used to be.

wingsfan

Just for fun afterwards we took our cars to the scales to take some pictures.

My car (94 touring, so the heaviest of the non-auto FDs)in it's race trim (~1/3 tank of gas and stock wheels, no spare, no Bose tube) weighed in at 2860 lbs.

To check the accuracy of the scales Jeff took a picture of me standing on the scale. I weighed in at a spritely 220lbs. For comparisons sake my scale at home says I'm 217.

And then we went back to Jeff's to put my tires back on, tools back in the hatch, and filled her up to see what she normally would weigh. We did the same with Jeff's R1 (with Fikse 17's and 245s on the front, 275s on the back). Jeff weighed in at 2840 lbs fully dressed, while I tipped in at 2960. If I ever get rid of my nonfunctional AC I'd guess I can drop another 40lbs of bracketry and compressor.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

More later but I wanted to point out after we were done we took both cars to the scales...

93 R1 wearing 17" Fikses, full tank of gas 2840lbs.

94 Touring w/17" SSR comps, LS1, full tank of gas, 2960lbs. The car has AC, PS, only missing spare tire and Bose hose. 2960lbs.

This pretty much agrees perfectly with my experience last year with my R1 and a friends 94 Touring with nearly identical mods, 120lb split between the two, on SCCA scales.

It is really safe to say the conversion doesn't add more than 20-40lbs.

We took pics of the cars on the scale and Andrew standing on the scale alone. The scale is right on.

I'd say with a little "development" the LS1 car could be brutally fast. The significant difference between the two cars was the low end torque of the V8. I had no problem blasting out of tight corners and *tweaking* the car's attitude with the throttle.

wingsfan

The forum here is really fighting me on the picture upload. I've essentially duplicated the thread over at tourquecentral, but I'll provide the links in case anyone is curious.

Car in race trim:
http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6764

Me on the scale:
http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6761

Jeff's R1 fully dressed:

http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6762

My car fully dressed:

http://www.torquecentral.com/attachm...achmentid=6763

Skeltah

Gotta love that Willamette Valley rain:-)

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Yeah we totalled lucked out. No rain on our runs, it started pouring about 15 min after we left the event.

DamonB

Just wanted to add that I got to ride with wingsfan on course yesterday and drive his car on the street afterwards. I would right now without a doubt put an LS-1 in my car if I could afford it. Maybe that will be some years down the road...

Fact is wingsfan's car feels like an FD in the chassis but it has more thrust than I have ever experienced in that car. This car pulls hard all across the tach. I don't care how big your turbo is, how big your ports or even if you have 3 rotors; no rotary has got the grunt this things does and it gets 33mpg to boot!

I can't find one bad thing to say about this engine conversion. I can't think of any advantage a turbo rotary would have over this engine in an FD.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I think the key comment in your post is "pulls hard across the tach". It doesn't matter if your at 2000 rpm or 4000 rpm, it just pulls, at an auto-x that is exactly what you need.

wingsfan

It's been tuned since you drove it too. Redline is now 6800, and it pulls hardersnf longer.

The tires still suck though.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Any other "issues" that you have fixed in the last 6 months?

I would love to try one of those in an auto cross race ..... (drool, drool)