Arca's RX-8 Time Attack Build Thread (13b-REW Swap)
11-06-14, 05:48 PM
#51
Nice build, as you already know the RX8 chassis makes a great race car. Time Attack is a great format. Went to a World Time Attack Challenge in Australia 3 weeks ago, great competition with Japanese teams competing there including the ex RE Amemiya 20b RX7 and a bonus with Mazda's 767B Lemans car doing demo laps (loud lol) Trying to gain those seconds and tenths becomes very addictive.
Good luck
Good luck
I'm super jealous that Oz has WTAC, looks like such a killer event. I love the Hurricane RX-7, one of my favorite cars out there. I've heard the 787b at Sevenstock while standing about 10 feet away from it, that thing was so awesome and so loud that when they blip the throttle your chest hurts hahaha.
Yeah no problem, I knew some people might think the 9180 is too big, but I have my reasons haha. With the crazy response of the EFR series, having a good manifold (Turblown) and E85, I don't think that the size will be a downfall on track with all of these things to help response. We will find out soon enough though. Sevenstock is going to be a blast, I haven't been to any of the ones with track events yet so I'm pumped. See you there man.
11-07-14, 02:49 AM
#52
Yeah the RX-8 chassis is great, just needs some work in the drivetrain department haha.
I'm super jealous that Oz has WTAC, looks like such a killer event. I love the Hurricane RX-7, one of my favorite cars out there. I've heard the 787b at Sevenstock while standing about 10 feet away from it, that thing was so awesome and so loud that when they blip the throttle your chest hurts hahaha.
Yeah no problem, I knew some people might think the 9180 is too big, but I have my reasons haha. With the crazy response of the EFR series, having a good manifold (Turblown) and E85, I don't think that the size will be a downfall on track with all of these things to help response. We will find out soon enough though. Sevenstock is going to be a blast, I haven't been to any of the ones with track events yet so I'm pumped. See you there man.
I'm super jealous that Oz has WTAC, looks like such a killer event. I love the Hurricane RX-7, one of my favorite cars out there. I've heard the 787b at Sevenstock while standing about 10 feet away from it, that thing was so awesome and so loud that when they blip the throttle your chest hurts hahaha.
Yeah no problem, I knew some people might think the 9180 is too big, but I have my reasons haha. With the crazy response of the EFR series, having a good manifold (Turblown) and E85, I don't think that the size will be a downfall on track with all of these things to help response. We will find out soon enough though. Sevenstock is going to be a blast, I haven't been to any of the ones with track events yet so I'm pumped. See you there man.
11-07-14, 09:19 AM
#53
I don't think I've seen any well documented results but I have seen a couple floating around. Haven't seen any thorough results on the forums though. My results won't be interesting until I get a new transmission and diff that can take the power. Will probably only run like 10PSI at first. We'll see.
11-09-14, 12:41 AM
#54
Were your dyno numbers with the renesis motor normal? 134 I think it was. Isn't the car 250 stock? That's a ton of driveline loss no? Sorry if I'm missing something simple but I do love the rx8 platform as well and was thinking of getting one in the very near future buy was hoping to have a little success with mods. Thanks!
11-09-14, 01:02 AM
#55
Were your dyno numbers with the renesis motor normal? 134 I think it was. Isn't the car 250 stock? That's a ton of driveline loss no? Sorry if I'm missing something simple but I do love the rx8 platform as well and was thinking of getting one in the very near future buy was hoping to have a little success with mods. Thanks!
11-28-14, 04:27 PM
#58
Yeah no problem, I knew some people might think the 9180 is too big, but I have my reasons haha. With the crazy response of the EFR series, having a good manifold (Turblown) and E85, I don't think that the size will be a downfall on track with all of these things to help response. We will find out soon enough though. Sevenstock is going to be a blast, I haven't been to any of the ones with track events yet so I'm pumped. See you there man.
Absolutely not too big for real Time Attack. 9180 is what the 4cyl T/A guys use or are going to- so on a rotary its like 2 sizes smaller (too small?) turbo.
The popular go to track turbo on the FD for ages in Japan has been the T04Z and with the right engine/chassis set-up its fastest even on small tracks like Tsukuba.
Yes, biggish turbos would be slower on a tight track with as stock 5 speed/ 6 speed, stock gearing, regular tuning etc...
but on a dedicated time attack car you have close ratio trans with fast dog engaged sequential shifting and run no lift shift/antilag to keep the turbo spooled up.
I think a great simple/bullet proof set up for a Time Attack rotary would be dual v-band internal WG EFR 7163 turbos. I think the mixed axial/radial flow turbine wheel will prove to spool VERY fast on a rotary.
Story time-
I had a turbo housing milled for larger wheel and it ended up a little deep setting front scroll behind the turbo exhaust wheel (axial flow). That made a 60-1 w/P trim exhaust spool like a madman!
Absolutely not too big for real Time Attack. 9180 is what the 4cyl T/A guys use or are going to- so on a rotary its like 2 sizes smaller (too small?) turbo.
The popular go to track turbo on the FD for ages in Japan has been the T04Z and with the right engine/chassis set-up its fastest even on small tracks like Tsukuba.
Yes, biggish turbos would be slower on a tight track with as stock 5 speed/ 6 speed, stock gearing, regular tuning etc...
but on a dedicated time attack car you have close ratio trans with fast dog engaged sequential shifting and run no lift shift/antilag to keep the turbo spooled up.
I think a great simple/bullet proof set up for a Time Attack rotary would be dual v-band internal WG EFR 7163 turbos. I think the mixed axial/radial flow turbine wheel will prove to spool VERY fast on a rotary.
Story time-
I had a turbo housing milled for larger wheel and it ended up a little deep setting front scroll behind the turbo exhaust wheel (axial flow). That made a 60-1 w/P trim exhaust spool like a madman!
11-30-14, 11:22 AM
#59
I think at the level of American time attack, the 9180 will be plenty. I think at the international level though a 13b might have some issues trying to produce say 900+WHP in a road course environment lol.
So I've been working on the car and will have some updates soon.
In the mean time, I was able to tag along with UMS Tuning (where my car will be tuned) to the Global Time Attack Super Lap Battle in California and I made this video. It was an awesome event and is my main goal for the 2015 season. Make it to Super Lap and run with the big dogs.
So I've been working on the car and will have some updates soon.
In the mean time, I was able to tag along with UMS Tuning (where my car will be tuned) to the Global Time Attack Super Lap Battle in California and I made this video. It was an awesome event and is my main goal for the 2015 season. Make it to Super Lap and run with the big dogs.
12-21-14, 01:02 PM
#63
Manifold is all finished up and on its way to me. Available at TurboSource.com - Turbochargers | Turbo Components | Heat Management | Performance Parts | in both external and internal wastegate configurations for 13b-REW swapped RX-8's. If you want a big turbo (up to GTX42r, EFR9180 or S480 sizes for example) and the ability to have a 4" downpipe this is a good choice.
Mine is externally gated with two 40mm Turbosmart units (don't have those yet, ones in picture aren't mine) and also has dual EGT bungs. I will be sending it off soon to get coated at Swaintech as well as the turbine housing.
Mine is externally gated with two 40mm Turbosmart units (don't have those yet, ones in picture aren't mine) and also has dual EGT bungs. I will be sending it off soon to get coated at Swaintech as well as the turbine housing.
01-17-16, 02:01 AM
#65
Long time no update. Build was put on hold while I tried to have a nice oil pan built that would be shallow enough to not be hanging too low in the car (engine sits very low in the RX8 chassis) and also not starve for oil under hard cornering. Well, paid for it about 10 months ago but it didn't work out, so the only option that I like is making my own dry sump setup.
It will use a two stage external suction pump and the oil tank will feed the stock oil pump.
I picked up a 5/8" 6061-T6 aluminum plate and a couple of pieces of rectangle tube for $60 out of the scrap section of a local metal supply store. With a bit of machining and welding I'm going to build my own dry sump oil pan.
Also the other pictures are of the intercooler core, radiator, and oil coolers that I'll be using.
It will use a two stage external suction pump and the oil tank will feed the stock oil pump.
I picked up a 5/8" 6061-T6 aluminum plate and a couple of pieces of rectangle tube for $60 out of the scrap section of a local metal supply store. With a bit of machining and welding I'm going to build my own dry sump oil pan.
Also the other pictures are of the intercooler core, radiator, and oil coolers that I'll be using.
01-19-16, 09:21 PM
#67
they are some decent coolers. your builds looking epic. going to be a serious piece of gear. I have read this whole thread but refresh my. are you going to be running standard gearbox and diff?
01-19-16, 10:38 PM
#69
I've actually never looked inside the oil coolers yet. I doubt they look like the intercooler, because it's not made by the same company. Those caps have to be heated I think in order to get them off, they're on there really good. When the time comes to get them in I'll try to remember to take a picture.
The radiator is an off the shelf unit from Griffin Thermal Products. The intercooler is a custom piece from the same place but they don't have any of the intercooler stuff out in public or on their website. You have to call them and request to have one built, lead time for me was less than 3 weeks to my door so not bad. But they hooked me up with a good deal right before their production costs on these went way up. Expect to pay $1000+ for just a core like that nowadays. This size will handle about 800WHP rotary worth of air but the kicker is that there is almost no pressure drop vs. a bar and plate style. They are not as efficient as bar and plate (hence the large size) and are also a tiny bit lighter. It's called an extruded aluminum tube intercooler.
The oil coolers from Fluidyne I'm not sure what the intended purpose is. They're just in the catalog as oil coolers and they were the biggest I think I could fit.
The oil coolers (-12an) and radiator (-16an) are both dual pass and have 3" thick cores. The intercooler is a 4" thick core.
Oh and about the gearbox and diff. I'm using a box that most people in the U.S. haven't really heard of, it's the JDM RX-8 5 speed. It's only available on a couple of years of the RX-8 in Japan when they first came out, and only on the low power 4 port engine models so they are a little tough to find. But it is a JDM FD transmission center section, but with an RX-8 bellhousing with push type clutch and RX-8 tailhousing that bolts right in no problem. It's much stronger than the RX-8 6 speed and if it ever breaks, I can just find a USDM or JDM FD transmission, and swap the bellhousing and tailhousing onto it. The diff will take a decent amount of power. But this drivetrain setup is to get used to the car on low boost and drive it for awhile until I can upgrade to something bulletproof. I'm leaning towards a G-Force 5 speed H pattern dog box and a Cobra Terminator rear diff and Driveshaft Shop carbon fiber driveshaft and some of their axles as well. Then I can turn up the power.
The radiator is an off the shelf unit from Griffin Thermal Products. The intercooler is a custom piece from the same place but they don't have any of the intercooler stuff out in public or on their website. You have to call them and request to have one built, lead time for me was less than 3 weeks to my door so not bad. But they hooked me up with a good deal right before their production costs on these went way up. Expect to pay $1000+ for just a core like that nowadays. This size will handle about 800WHP rotary worth of air but the kicker is that there is almost no pressure drop vs. a bar and plate style. They are not as efficient as bar and plate (hence the large size) and are also a tiny bit lighter. It's called an extruded aluminum tube intercooler.
The oil coolers from Fluidyne I'm not sure what the intended purpose is. They're just in the catalog as oil coolers and they were the biggest I think I could fit.
The oil coolers (-12an) and radiator (-16an) are both dual pass and have 3" thick cores. The intercooler is a 4" thick core.
Oh and about the gearbox and diff. I'm using a box that most people in the U.S. haven't really heard of, it's the JDM RX-8 5 speed. It's only available on a couple of years of the RX-8 in Japan when they first came out, and only on the low power 4 port engine models so they are a little tough to find. But it is a JDM FD transmission center section, but with an RX-8 bellhousing with push type clutch and RX-8 tailhousing that bolts right in no problem. It's much stronger than the RX-8 6 speed and if it ever breaks, I can just find a USDM or JDM FD transmission, and swap the bellhousing and tailhousing onto it. The diff will take a decent amount of power. But this drivetrain setup is to get used to the car on low boost and drive it for awhile until I can upgrade to something bulletproof. I'm leaning towards a G-Force 5 speed H pattern dog box and a Cobra Terminator rear diff and Driveshaft Shop carbon fiber driveshaft and some of their axles as well. Then I can turn up the power.
Last edited by Arca_ex; 01-19-16 at 10:58 PM.
01-20-16, 03:23 AM
#71
Good find on that gearbox!will have to keep eye for them down here. we get alot of imports. but the only 4port rx8s iv worked on have been auto.
I knew I had seen those oil coolers before. Pretty pricey here. $800nzd(500usd). they are much better structurally then the normal oilcoolers design. they seem to advertise them for dirt racing as they can handle heavy impacts etc.
I knew I had seen those oil coolers before. Pretty pricey here. $800nzd(500usd). they are much better structurally then the normal oilcoolers design. they seem to advertise them for dirt racing as they can handle heavy impacts etc.
07-22-16, 09:01 AM
#73
The manifold is a great piece. There are other people running them right now as well.
Alright so what I've been busy with lately... I finally have what I consider "real" employment. No more 1099 contract bullshit, no more near minimum wage pay, no more complete lack of benefits and retirement plan. I work for the government now, specifically the US Postal Service. I started about 3 months ago as a Maintenance Mechanic after nearly a year long application/interview process. I work at the huge mail processing and sorting plant that handles all letter mail for Arizona.
I would mainly vacuum up dust and perform preventative maintenance on the various multi-million dollar machines that are used to process and sort mail at a staggering rate. Some of them can handle up to 40,000 mail pieces per hour and we probably have about 100 different machines there. Then just two weeks ago I got a massive promotion. Huge bump in pay, so I just finished paying off all my credit card debt that I had stacked up while I only had part time employment, and now I have a lot of expendable income to do racecar stuff. Now I'm a Mail Processing Equipment Mechanic so I get to do more involved work, diagnosis, and reactive repair to the machines that we have. I was in the right place at the right time, did well on the interview and test scores and beat out a lot of other people in order to jump up that fast so I'm pretty stoked.
Here's a video that has in it some of the machines that I work on if anyone is interested. After the video, I have more of what I've been up to lately.
So. Truck stuff.
Found a 2000 Ford F350 Crew Cab Long Bed 2WD dually in long beach. Had everything I wanted including 6 speed manual, 7.3l Powerstroke with the forged rods, and only 113k miles. I was super pumped. Test drive went fine, it looked super clean etc etc. But then on the drive back, it would start to overheat going up hills... I thought okay maybe the radiator is plugged up with casting sand (common problem) not a big deal. I started to tear into it and multiple things were fucked. Foreign object damage to the turbo, the metal from the compressor wheel went through the engine and destroyed the turbine wheel as well, intercooler was packed with metal and air filter cotton, cooling system needed to be gone through, fan clutch was seized solid, charge pipe couplers were all leaking, the list goes on.
Then after I did a bunch of work to it, the throwout bearing destroys itself and the truck was stuck at my dad's work. So had to drop the transmission and replace EVERYTHING since it destroyed everything when it failed. Very lucky that the input shaft on the transmission didn't get jacked up. Also that thing is heavy as ****. Never want to do that again.
Only thing left on the list is probably getting a PHP Hydra Chip to load a +20hp heavy towing tune on it to reduce EGT a little more. I'm also using an Edge CTS2 Insight to monitor all sorts of things like temps, boost, injector and high pressure oil data, and EGT.
List of stuff replaced and pictures:
Engine and Drivetrain:
Garrett GTP38r 67mm Turbo Upgrade
S&B Cold Air Intake
Magnaflow 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/ Straight Through Muffler (It's as quiet as stock so I'm happy with that. Exactly what I wanted)
International Bellowed/Flex Turbo Up-Pipes
CSF 3" Thick Bar and Plate Intercooler - Weighs 55lbs LOL (stock is 2" thick tube and fin)
Reflect-A-Gold on cold side charge pipe
Replaced MAP sensor hose
New o-rings for turbo pedestal oil connections and compressor v-band outlet.
RiffRaff Diesel CCV Reroute
RiffRaff Diesel Charge Pipe Coupler Kit
RiffRaff Diesel T-Bolt clamp kit
RiffRaff Diesel Plenum Inlet Aluminum Reinforcement Rings
RiffRaff Diesel Air Intake Heater Element Delete and CEL Defeat Kit
Gates Fleet Serpentine Belt
Gates Belt Tensioner assembly
Gates Idler Pulley
Oil Change, 4 gallons Rotella T6 5w-40 and Wix Filter
Wix Fuel Filter
Replaced rotting hose on fuel bowl connection (previous owner did this and didn't even tighten the clamps, and it looked like cheap heater hose that was disintegrating and diesel was leaking from it WTF?)
Sachs HD Clutch Kit (45lbs total)
Sachs Single Mass Flywheel (50lbs)
New Updated Ford Clutch Fork
Cooling System and Other Fluids:
Performance Radiator All Aluminum Radiator
All new Gates radiator hoses and degas to radiator hose
Motorcraft Thermostat
Motorcraft Fan Clutch (stock one was seized solid, sounded like hurricane Katrina under the hood)
Dorman Degas/Coolant Bottle
Motorcraft Degas Bottle Cap
Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
Rotella Gold Ultra ELC coolant for diesels
New Transmission fluid, 1 QT Valvoline Syncromesh and 6 QT Mobil 1 Synthetic Mercon V ATF (yes it specs ATF)
Alright so what I've been busy with lately... I finally have what I consider "real" employment. No more 1099 contract bullshit, no more near minimum wage pay, no more complete lack of benefits and retirement plan. I work for the government now, specifically the US Postal Service. I started about 3 months ago as a Maintenance Mechanic after nearly a year long application/interview process. I work at the huge mail processing and sorting plant that handles all letter mail for Arizona.
I would mainly vacuum up dust and perform preventative maintenance on the various multi-million dollar machines that are used to process and sort mail at a staggering rate. Some of them can handle up to 40,000 mail pieces per hour and we probably have about 100 different machines there. Then just two weeks ago I got a massive promotion. Huge bump in pay, so I just finished paying off all my credit card debt that I had stacked up while I only had part time employment, and now I have a lot of expendable income to do racecar stuff. Now I'm a Mail Processing Equipment Mechanic so I get to do more involved work, diagnosis, and reactive repair to the machines that we have. I was in the right place at the right time, did well on the interview and test scores and beat out a lot of other people in order to jump up that fast so I'm pretty stoked.
Here's a video that has in it some of the machines that I work on if anyone is interested. After the video, I have more of what I've been up to lately.
So. Truck stuff.
Found a 2000 Ford F350 Crew Cab Long Bed 2WD dually in long beach. Had everything I wanted including 6 speed manual, 7.3l Powerstroke with the forged rods, and only 113k miles. I was super pumped. Test drive went fine, it looked super clean etc etc. But then on the drive back, it would start to overheat going up hills... I thought okay maybe the radiator is plugged up with casting sand (common problem) not a big deal. I started to tear into it and multiple things were fucked. Foreign object damage to the turbo, the metal from the compressor wheel went through the engine and destroyed the turbine wheel as well, intercooler was packed with metal and air filter cotton, cooling system needed to be gone through, fan clutch was seized solid, charge pipe couplers were all leaking, the list goes on.
Then after I did a bunch of work to it, the throwout bearing destroys itself and the truck was stuck at my dad's work. So had to drop the transmission and replace EVERYTHING since it destroyed everything when it failed. Very lucky that the input shaft on the transmission didn't get jacked up. Also that thing is heavy as ****. Never want to do that again.
Only thing left on the list is probably getting a PHP Hydra Chip to load a +20hp heavy towing tune on it to reduce EGT a little more. I'm also using an Edge CTS2 Insight to monitor all sorts of things like temps, boost, injector and high pressure oil data, and EGT.
List of stuff replaced and pictures:
Engine and Drivetrain:
Garrett GTP38r 67mm Turbo Upgrade
S&B Cold Air Intake
Magnaflow 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/ Straight Through Muffler (It's as quiet as stock so I'm happy with that. Exactly what I wanted)
International Bellowed/Flex Turbo Up-Pipes
CSF 3" Thick Bar and Plate Intercooler - Weighs 55lbs LOL (stock is 2" thick tube and fin)
Reflect-A-Gold on cold side charge pipe
Replaced MAP sensor hose
New o-rings for turbo pedestal oil connections and compressor v-band outlet.
RiffRaff Diesel CCV Reroute
RiffRaff Diesel Charge Pipe Coupler Kit
RiffRaff Diesel T-Bolt clamp kit
RiffRaff Diesel Plenum Inlet Aluminum Reinforcement Rings
RiffRaff Diesel Air Intake Heater Element Delete and CEL Defeat Kit
Gates Fleet Serpentine Belt
Gates Belt Tensioner assembly
Gates Idler Pulley
Oil Change, 4 gallons Rotella T6 5w-40 and Wix Filter
Wix Fuel Filter
Replaced rotting hose on fuel bowl connection (previous owner did this and didn't even tighten the clamps, and it looked like cheap heater hose that was disintegrating and diesel was leaking from it WTF?)
Sachs HD Clutch Kit (45lbs total)
Sachs Single Mass Flywheel (50lbs)
New Updated Ford Clutch Fork
Cooling System and Other Fluids:
Performance Radiator All Aluminum Radiator
All new Gates radiator hoses and degas to radiator hose
Motorcraft Thermostat
Motorcraft Fan Clutch (stock one was seized solid, sounded like hurricane Katrina under the hood)
Dorman Degas/Coolant Bottle
Motorcraft Degas Bottle Cap
Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
Rotella Gold Ultra ELC coolant for diesels
New Transmission fluid, 1 QT Valvoline Syncromesh and 6 QT Mobil 1 Synthetic Mercon V ATF (yes it specs ATF)
07-22-16, 02:29 PM
#75
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
YES! Love the truck build added into here too! In Kalifornistan, you'd be more worried about it being a 98 for that smog exemption. 