valid point

 

This should be settled privately. It is one thing to post a pic and ask a question but you threw names into it from the get go. The whole you get more bees with honey thing applies here. I haven't been around the boards too long but from what I can gather Kevin is very well respected and knows his stuff. Who knows what he would have done had you not approached it this way. It's just a simple case of perhaps if you had thought things out first and been a little nicer some one would have probably bent over backwards to help you out or make you happy. Speak with JHB, see what they will do for you, then take this to the good guy bad guy section. But in all honesty if you have someone like Kevin pretty much promising you that this will have no adverse affect, take his word for it. I would.

 

If it were me I would find a local company that does cermet coatings and ask them what they thought about the groove.

 

okay, cpu. point well taken.

</thread>

 

Too bad I wasn't giving you my opinion... The only reason I responded to this thread was because I put myself in skatingsamuri's shoes. LOOK AT THE PIC! I would be pissed if I bought that housing without knowing about the massive gouge.



There are many laymen's *rules of thumb* associated with rotary engine-building. One of them is that you; "Don't use a housing that has gouges that you can catch a nail in". Now the purpose of that "rule" is to give an amateur builder some basic parameters when considering building an engine with used rotor-housings... To an amateur builder like samuri (or myself), it's conflicting when you know this basic rule, but then are told by indivisibly biased people that the housing will perform perfectly EVEN with a massive nail-catching gouge...

That being said, I'm sure the engine wil be fine. I would perfectly happy to use that housing in an engine, but I would not be happy that I spent good money on it without knowing about the gouge, and then was thrust into this conflicting debate, when the whole reason I purchased the housing was to prevent this anxiety... The last thing an inexperienced builder needs when rebuilding an engine is MORE doubt regarding the dependability of the finished product.

Go "reneg" on a deal? You are such a drama-king! Then again, what would life be without internet drama?

 

There is no such place. To my understanding they are the only company in the world that resurfaces rotorhousings with cermet. There is one other guy/company that is still in the testing stage of recoating housings with chrome (I believe) and those are the only 2 setups in the WORLD that resurface old housings.

BUt you're comparing apples to oranges.

For one, that rule of thumb is not really all that accurate. You can 'catch your fingernail" on the 1-5 thousandths step wear on every iron I've used in an engine build in the last 6 years. Clearly the rule did not apply there. You could "catch your fingernail" on the rear edge chrome flaking of many of the used rotorhousings used in those same builds. Again, clearly the rule is not absolute.

For two, you're comparing a CHROME housing to a CERMET housing. You might as well compare the properties of paint versus powdercoat. Two coatings totally different in composition, application, reaction to conditions, etc.

I was told that there is a light layer of cermet over the steel liner at the base of the groove, which bonds with the rest to prevent flaking. And that since the material is so expensive sometimes they elect not to fill in a deep groove all the way, if it is by the exhaust port where it will not affect anything adversely.

I checked what I have on the shelf and I have 6 more cermet housings. 4) are for FD and would not be suitable for a turbo II engine running the stock turbo/water supply, and 2) are for series 5 turbo. They will work in any 87-91 turbo engine with no modification. If SS would like to return these housings I will exchange them for the series 5's so that he (and some of you "drama kings" on this forum) can sleep better at night. That's the only remedy I can offer; partial or full refund is not an option, this isn't wal-mart.

 

I'm with Kevin that that housing is perfectly usable. Hell I reused my rear housing that had even more gouging around the exhaust area than that one. The front was perfect. When I did a compression check of the engine at 6k, the compression numbers between the two housings were dead even. Also the finger nail issue is an invalid point (especially on this side of the housing where there's no compression) since it's a deep groove and not raised.


Anyways in the original posters defense, honestly I too would be upset not knowing I was getting this in the mail if I just dropped 400 dollars for it. Any experienced or in-experienced builder would panic at the initial sight of it.

 

you did the right thing.

+1 for a good guy in a thread of haters....

 

IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE COMPRESSION STROKE

Is there an echo in here?

IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE COMPRESSION STROKE

Must be. Cause theres 4 pages of the same thing being repeated.

I'd put that housing in my engine. It's been proven over and over again that gouges like this do not affect the compression stroke of the combustion process. And since it's already been said that the edges are smoothed over theres no legitimate arguement here other then they cosmetically look like a used rotor housing.

So... whats the goddamn problem here?

 

ya, this should have been settled privately. and i would do business with RR any day of the week and twice on sunday. if a peripheral port doesnt F up the engine, a gouge wont. +1 for no refund, and +1 for trying to settle things properly. As far as the original poster, starting a thread probably was a bad idea.
i want a cermet coated housing!

peace

 

jesus, ok, i get the ******* point. more and more im started to agree with RR lol. i mean he had proven a point. and theres not much im worried about...i would say more but im just putting one more nail in the coffin becuase everything has infact been said many, many times. thank you all for your input really. its been great. no more ....please! lol

 

Though I know very little, Read: None, on the subject of rotary engine rebuilding, I would say that if Kevin says that it will work, and not cause an issue, that he knows what the hell he is talking about. He has been around for a while, this isnt his first rebuild, and his knowledge (while not absolute) is probably not something you could knock with a stick.

Now, about the gouge itself. Okay, it looks slightly bad, yes. But you know what? (Like many other people have said) When the engine is reassembled you wont be able to see the damn thing. And it wont hinder any performance.

I just helped my dad rebuild the 1.8L Turbo Audi motor in my moms 99 turbo beetle. It had part of the compressor wheel go through the head and into the engine. The #3 piston was slightly scratched, and a couple nicks in the cylinder wall. Guess what? It still runs just fine, after it got a valve replaced, had the head resurfaced, and got the turbo rebuilt. Oh, biggest part. You cant see it from the outside.

(Note this entire post is directed at all of the people flaming him for shipping it out)

If he wanted to destroy his reputation, he would send something that would affect the performance, and integrity of the housing, say, like a coolant passage breach into the intake. That would be a valid concern. He has however done a very good job of "I will not bullshit you, and I will not bend over for you. If you dont like it, tough ****, move on. I dont need your business that much."

I mean, he did offer to exchange the housings that were sent, for the S5 ones that he has in stock. Thats more than generous in this situation. I say +10 to Kevin on a good business practice, and more than enough patience for stupid people (note, not directed at OP).

Ill get off my soap box now.

 

no offence taken

 

One final point: There should always be proper communication between buyer and seller on any kind of transaction such as this. Often times, parts are purchased sight-unseen and there is a lot of trust placed on the seller to deliver what the customer wants. I do not know what transpired between SS and the seller, but I'd bet he would have not been so shell-shocked to see that gouge if the seller would have made him aware of it and assured him upfront that it would be ok to use in his engine. Best of luck on your rebuild SS.

 

So much... its painfull

But I'm glad to see a positive end result

 

lmao @ gif ^

 

Well, I'll chime in with my 3 cents (you guys can keep the change...)

1) If you have a problem with something you bought, take it up with the person you bought it from first. That goes for the great sellers and the **** bags around here.

2) If that doesn't work, try again.

3) If that doesn't work, try a third time.

4) Then you start a thread for general discussion.

5) Kevin Landers' word has been good around here, ****, it's been solid gold plated, for years. I have never seen him do bad by anyone deliberately, and the few times I've seen issues, he's always gone out of his way to take care of the person, usually above and beyond what anyone else around here is going to do. I don't give a **** if somebody had a rotary rebuild shop around here, I'd still send my motor to Kevin gladly. There's a reason why he has the reputation and the business he has, and it's called customer service.

 

I HAVE to answer in this post

Im a guy in a freaking south american country

BOTH Marc and Kevin went OUT of their way to give me a hand so I can rebuild my seven.

I would buy from them again anytime.

It´s very important to have reliable, respectable sellers in the community.

Don´t scare them away with an irresponsable behavior.

This forum is full of scammers, I would hate to see "good guys" walking off.

 

Thank you for this common sense statement that escapes so many users here.

Seriously, you hear the phrases "the customer is always right", "I did you a favor by bringing my business to you", etc. thrown around often. Buyers fail to see that respectable sellers are getting few and far between, so in all reality when a person buys from one of these sellers, no one is really doing anyone a great favor, nor should either party have to kiss the others' ***. THe buyer is giving his money to the seller and trusting him. The seller is providing quality parts at a reasonable price and not scamming the buyer. That in itself (to me) makes it a mutually beneficial transaction, rather than the "buyer doing the seller a favor by giving him business".

This applies more so to small shops and inviduals, whereas it's generally expected of big companies to kiss their customers' asses for some reason.

 

To the people who said he should not have made a thread, I disagree. It's obvious that he created the thread with the intention of finding out if this gouge would be a problem, or not. Asking Kevin directly, one would think, would result in a biased opinion. Honestly, if I get something from a manufacturer, and it looks broken..would the manufacturer tell me I'm right? No, they would do everything in their power to convince me it is all fine and dandy.

..Now, this is not to say the gouge is any problem at all. I have no experience in this situation to rule it in either direction, but I would say, I would use it. :-D

However, if the gouge was not reported as being in the housing at the time of sale, I would be very pissed off when I got the product. I would expect a replacement. But that's just me.

 

I agree. He was justified in making a thread, and he didn't post it in the gg/bg section. He just wanted opinions on whether it would pose a problem. It would be entirely different if posted a thread in the gg/bg section demanding answers from Kevin directly.

 

umm, k
heres what u should do.

OP: get one of the housings kevin offered to replace yours
Kevin: sell me his scratched housing for a "discounted" price

 

Why would I do that, when the housing is perfectly good? No matter whose hands it is in, I wouldnt change my opinion on that part. Whether I sell it out the door or use it in an engine right here, it's worth the same to me. I have $400 in it (or more) and wouldn't consider taking less. I did not make any money on the sale of these. I gave the cores away to JHB to begin with. I paid shipping to Canada, paid up front for their service, waited months to receive my product back, and paid shipping again from canada. Even though I get a slight discount on their services, I have right around $400 in each housing as it sits. I also have to put 30-60 minutes into each housing to make it useable, such as replacing missing studs, filing down or filling in imperfections in the aluminum, replacing/swapping exhaust sleeves, etc.

Above I offered the buyer a trade for one other set of suitable housings I had on my shelf. A couple of days went by with no further word, and in the meantime a seperate rebuild customer of mine opted to buy/use that set of housings in HIS engine, so that trade set is no longer available. I'm not backing out of my offer, but that's just the nature of business...wait around and desireable stuff gets gone. I do still have 2 sets of FD cermet housings that I offered the OP, though one would have to be machined for the LIM coolant passage to be used in his T2 engine.

 

yeah, as i said to the seller, i dont want to bother with the fd housings. btw why was this thread moved to good guy bad guy? i never wanted this to be a finger pointing thread to begin with...w/e i dont want to start any more ****.... but i would like to ask another housings. one of the them is accually from a s4 NA . is this going to be a problem???

 

s4 NA and turbo housings are identical castings, with exception of the LIM coolant passage/oring for the stock t2 turbo. So you put the t2 housing in the "rear" where the coolant passage in the LIM is, and the other one up front where it doesnt matter. The stock t2 block has 2 housings, both with ports/o-rings, but only one is used. The front one goes to a dead end. In reality, using an NA housing in the front is actually better, because that's one less o-ring to potentially fail and leak.

In case you're wondering, I swapped the turbo exhaust sleeve into the NA housing already.