Kansas JoyRide

iTrader: (1)

I am posting here in the hope that someone will help me with my setup. I have ordered everything I need setup my fuel system to run six injectors (cj motorsport fuel rail set, 6 IDx1000 cc injectors, stealth fuel pump, xcessive LIM , requlator, fuel preasure gauge and anything else I may have forgotten to list). What I would love to get my hands on is an electronic copy of someones Power FC DL map who is running this setup. I know it's a long shot, but hey, if you don't ask...

In the likely event that I don't get my hands on a map for this setup, would anyone chime in on a few questions I will need answers to. Specifically I am most interested in the settings for the fields on the 5th tab: Injector size percent fields and especially the secondaries. A couple of my specific questions are:
1. The ID web site posts a table of settings for their injectors per fuel psi. If I for example plan on running 55 psi their table tells me the injector would deliver fuel at the rate of 1335 cc. Would I then set up my secondary injector field as if it were a single 2670 cc injector. This would make sense to me but I would like to verify my thinking.
2. Assuming my first conclusion is correct would I then set up my primary and secondary injector percentages as 550\1335 (primary) and 850\2670 secondary.
3. I have read that if you enter the ID provided #s in settings tab 5 for lag vs bat V you need only enter o in the lag fields next to the injector setup fields. I want to confirm this is correct.

Finally, I was thinking I would attempt to start with my current afr maps, which I am thinking should be rich with this setup. Any input on this would also be greatly appreciated.

Thx for reading RD

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I do not have firsthand experience with this setup, but I will try to provide some input.

First make sure your base fuel pressure (no vacuum on the FPR) is 55psi. The FC-Datalogit software instructions recommend the approach you are suggesting, adding the additional injector in to the calculation. Page 81 of the DL instructions mentions that. So 2670 sounds reasonable
I'm not sure I follow you. Post a screenshot of what you are proposing to enter into the Settings 5 tab.

Yes but that's not even restricted to ID injectors. If you have another brand and have mostly accurate lag vs battery voltage you can do it that way.

It's hard to say what's going to happen. Fuel tuning in these situations is often a tedious guess-and-check affair.

Kansas JoyRide

iTrader: (1)

Here is a screen shot of the tab5 setup fields based on what I think they should be. In my earlier post I was wrong about my logic for the secondaries. I think this may be correct. I got the actual dead time vs psi numbers as you recommended. ( I may or may not run this exact psi, but it should suffice to discuss the setup logic)

The primary percent entered is the result of the equation 550 cc\1225 cc (flow@65 psi)
The secondary injector size is the sum of two of the four secondary injectors (2x1225)

I entered the dead time values from the table provided with the injectors and changed the lag setting to 0.

I pmed crewrx7 a couple of days ago because I will be needing to have someone look over my timing maps as I get all of the hardware installed and start working on re-tunning. Back in 09 sometime I had joined a tunning group and was sent some info and invited to a smaller tuners group for members who wanted to learn to tune. I did not do a lot with the group, but did receive some useful spreadsheets and documents and have been very slowly teaching myself to tune my car over the past couple of years. Anyway I contact crewrx7 because I wanted to re-up so I had a resource to check out my map once I got it together. He has apparently handed the group off to you so if possible I would like to do whatever is necessary to take advantage of the resource. Please let me know.

In case you need to know my moods are:

Large Street Port built by AZZR (Glen Weaver)
Apexi V-Core FMIC
Xcessive LIM
Power-FC with beige box datalogit v. 2.117
Twin power
Pineapple Dual EGT gauge
Wideband AFR
Stealth fuel pump and CJ MotorSports primary and secondary FR (on order from Charles)
A-Spec 500r SP
Racing beat exhaust with a Magnflow upstream
Rats nest and all the extras removes including the double throttle
Best fuel in central Kansas (not including E85) 91 octane

duty cycles have not allowed me to tune the top end of the map. Current set up is running stock 550 and 1600s in the secondary slots.

Thanks for reading, I hope I can join your group and have some resource to double check my work as I am in the middle of no where Kansas. Thx RD

arghx

iTrader: (3)

That looks right to me. One thing I recommend is to make sure you haven't capped off the injector atomization port on the LIM.

PM sent

Curious what the altitude is where you're at...
I hope you have rewired your fuel pump because it needs that voltage.

Most of us DIY tuners started learning out necessity.

Kansas JoyRide

iTrader: (1)

Thank you so much for taking the time to look this over, my confidence was not very high with this setup.

Yea, I will have to pull the plugs out of the two additional ports in the LIM. I capped them with the supplied caps when I originally installed the LIM.

I have a laundry list of projects I plan to start on, hopefully tomorrow: set of slotted and drilled brake rotors and pads to install, a dual oil cooler setup I just received today, (purchased it off this site from Allrotor (think thats right), my new fuel setup, track down a slow drain on my battery, (the one I am most worried about), solve a problem with my cooling fans not coming on when they should and install a relay in the rear of the car to rewire my fuel pump, which I had not yet done. That should take at least a Sunday afternoon ha ha. Whoops almost forgot about my new pillow ball bushing that have been in my garage for three years!

Altitude in Central KS is approximately 1650 ft above sea level. Winter temps drop below zero and July and August are routinely above 100 F. Nearest curve in the road in North West of Denver, which is also the location of the nearest tree (I my be exaggerating a tiny bit but not much).

Thanks again, I am looking forward to taking advantage of the tuning group, although I must admit I don't really understand exactly how it is supposed to work. Mostly I want to be sure my timing values are safe and I would love to get my transition better than it has been. Glen says these injectors will help that a lot, guess I will find out. Regards RD

Highboost242

iTrader: (7)

How are you wiring up the injectors, I have yet to install this similar setup on my car.

Kansas JoyRide

iTrader: (1)

First a disclaimer, I am not knowledgable enough to dispense wisdom on things like this, but in the interest of trying to give something back I will tell you what I was told and what I did.

A fellow by the name of Glen Weaver who is known to many in the RX7 community and is, or was, the Owner of Arizona Rotory Rockets told me the PFC would handle driving the two additional injectors by wiring them into the existing secondary wiring leads. All you need to do is create a pigtail for each of the two additional secondaries and splice them in to the existing secondary wires. Two ground wires one to each of the front rotor secondary injectors and one each to the two secondary rear injectors. If you look at a wiring schematic you will see that all of the injectors receive power from a single wire which splits off to provide power to each injector. I ran a single wire to power all four secondaries.

I just got my turbo back and got everything installed last week and am now working on tuning. It appears the injectors are working properly, only problem is I have not been able to figure out how to remove enough fuel at low RPM to keep the thing from running pig rich. I do not know if this helped but I gave it a shot.

Highboost242

iTrader: (7)

I have been told the same thing, just wanted to double check the info i received. Thanks for the info!

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I have nearly the same set up and have been able to get things running very well.

Important similarities are Large Street Port built by AZZR (Glen Weaver), 6 IDx1000 cc injectors and Power FC. Differences are I am using the newest black datalogit and E85 as fuel exclusively.

Idle and vacuum cruising is as lean as I want to make it and secondary transition seems to be decent as i am not a expert tuner. Base pressure is 50 PSI with dual Bosh 044's.

The important thing here is my settings are not what you would intuitively calculate which you have done above but have given me great results.

Are you using or are you considering using E85?

Kansas JoyRide

iTrader: (1)

I was and I still may, but the only station in my town that sold it dropped it. I think the government subsidy for E85 may have gone away, or maybe is about to go away. I think if that happens no one would want to use it for everyday fuel. I don't know how all of that will shake out. I understand that our cars love the stuff and I am pretty sure my setup, plus some addition fuel pump capacity, would handle it. Sounds like it solves the low end issues I am seeing with mine. Makes sense because of the addition fuel delivery needed. I have not figured out how to learn mine out on row three and at idle. Best afrs' I am seeing at idle are mid 12s. I am thinking I my need to change out my two 1000cc primaries for a couple of 750s.

Curious, did you remove the primary defuses? I was told you don't need them with these injectors, but I keep my because I have never heard of anyone having a problem with them.

Not sure what you mean about your settings? Are you talking about the set up for the injectors? Please feel free to share.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

As far as the primary defuses I really do not know. When I bought my car it was a build in progress and the injectors were already in place and wired up.

As far as the tune, I am not sure what I was thinking when I posted. My secondaries are set up differently but that has no bearing on your idle A/F. My good idle A/F has to be because of the E85.

Either way if you pm me your email address, I have no problem sharing my map with you.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

I've done this setup for three customers cars, works flawless. I suggest staying away from it unless you have large ported primary ports for obvious reasons. If you have any troubles give me a ring as I can guide you with some of the map settings that have worked for me as I see some differences in our settings already.

FYI I've run 20psi (yes 20) on a 42r with pump fuel on this setup safely. The car spins 3rd and barks 4th so I'm not someone that just popped some injectors in and sent someone down the road here. Street tuning and patience is your friend...

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

STREET TUNING AND PATIENCE is your friend...

i second that