TailHappy

Just set your top RPM row (or rows) of ignition timing to be very retarded for a "soft" ignition cut.

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

^^^ Well I all ready have a true Ignition cut for RPM and boost, so that isnt a problem. Just would like it built in.

If he could get a flash of a Power FC Pro then he should be able to flash that onto a normal Power FC to create a Pro.

FastHatch

Yes, but there is no FC Pro for the RX-7. There is supposed to be a 13BR2PRO, but I've never seen one.

I've figured out how the PFC stores the settings internally. You can actually make more changes than over the interface. Not yet sure how I can make them accessible for everyone because currently hardware mofifications and $900 equipment is required.

Time 4 Rebuild

Just wondering are there setting for the idle control PID loop? Also anything like trims for each rotor? I've always wondered if thing like this are in there just not accessible threw the regular means of tuning (FcTune or Datalogic)

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

There is a Power FC Pro, I have seen 2 of them in my life time, one at the drag strip on a FD and the other in a FC. This was a few years apart

FastHatch

I was looking around to buy one, but have never seen them for sale.
Also AFAIK the Pro models are all based on the older PFC models with socketed processor, so it would not be possible to turn a FD3S4/FD3S5/FD3S6 into a Pro.

JDMspec

iTrader: (1)

Does the socketed model processor means that you can swap the cpu without soldering? I assume its the AP Engineering version?

I found this one from Japan. Is this the the socketed type? Its the PRO version type cpu for Toyota.

FastHatch

Yes, you can swap the socketed CPU like the CPU in your PC. The Pro and AP Eng. models are different, the Pro has additional functions while AP just adapted the PFC to other cars.


Where have you found this? Link?
I've bought the Flash Programmer for the NEC CPUs and it would be possible to turn a normal PFC into a Pro for about $10.

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

What you mean is the PRO would give access to the hidden maps that we cannot change with the direct Power FC interface?

Or is the FC Pro reffering to Apexi's own "Dataloggit" thing. I have seen many of the later, it is alot easier to use than the FC Edit IMO.

FastHatch

These units have two additional functions over the regular units:

1. Ignition cut used for rpm limiter - Regular Power FCs cut fuel feed when the preset revolution limit is reached. At high rpm, there is the possibility of knocking when the fuel is cut in high powered cars. The Power FC Pro Spec.CPUs cut ignition at the rpm limit to prevent the knocking that could potentially destroy the engine.
2. 0km/h rpm limiter setting - Allows for the setting for an initial rpm limiter that is active whilst the car is not in motion. This allows for mainting a rpm level for consistent launches

turbo10th

iTrader: (6)

So would this be USDM compatible? Pro sounds awesome

Trionic

iTrader: (4)

FastHatch: how far are you? Are there checksums or compressed obsuficated areas? Are they using the standard instruction set or is it a special processor?

But yes! The only issue I have is the lack of idle control, there's something operating in the background where the main timing map is ignored for some reason and control reverts to something that isn't accessible. In the Saab world closed loop idle is handled by map driven PID control separate from the main mapping, I suspect the same is true for these boxes, but those setting just aren't present in the Datalogit.

Not to promote my website (don't worry we don't make any money), but there's a place where the right people are already gathered to tackle a project like this. There was a similar problem with Saab's Trionic engine management, it was completely closed and tunes were $1200 each. Instead of paying that a friend and I spent about 3 years reversing the Saab Trionic 7 engine management, we got the point where more information was needed (I'm an E-Engineer, not an embedded systems guy), and decided to take everything public; started ECUProject.

And ultimately the project was a successful international effort, the correct group of people assembled together and sometime last year T7Suite and T5Suite were released.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in sharing what they have with a group of guys fluent with tools like IDA Pro, I can make an RX7 specific forum over on www.ECUProject.com. Right now there's an 'Other' forum but if there's interest it's no problem to expand the scope of the site. The right people are there with the right skills & tools.

dreadseb

So can somebody make me a copy of the PRO cpu for toyota... Need one for my 2jz powerfc... Come on, you know you wanna.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

So i'm a bit confused, can pfc pro features be put on a normal pfc for a 93-95 rx7 at this point in time? I want to say there was an older and newer pfc for the 93-95 rx7 is it only one version thats able to be updated to the pro features? Which one is it? And does someone already have whatever hardware thats needed? I'm just trying to figure out whats possible right now and what is more theory based.

FastHatch

I'm sorry, but the required equipment totals $4,000 (just a programing ADAPTER and a SOCKET for the CPU costs $500 and $200) as well as a lot of time is required, so obviously I can't give all technical infos away for free.


The PFC has an idle ignition function. From the top of my head it's set to 16° and if the engine speed falls below the target idle speed the ignition is advanced, otherwise retarded.

FastHatch

Sure, I'll buy a Toyota Pro CPU and make you a free copy. Anything else?

FastHatch

Not yet, but at least for the 0 Km/h rev limiter it is possible. Ignition cut isn't that easy, maybe later when I have a better understanding of the firmware.


I have all the required hardware and can read/write the CPU and EPROM.

Trionic

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=FastHatch;9139863]I'm sorry, but the required equipment totals $4,000 (just a programing ADAPTER and a SOCKET for the CPU costs $500 and $200) as well as a lot of time is required, so obviously I can't give all technical infos away for free.[QUOTE]

No, actually, you're not sorry at all. Don't worry about the interface cost, it's just another incidental cost in the process that you'll likely never recover. That's the exact reason why nothing will ever be done that anyone can use; if you're doing this to make money you need to reexamine your business model.. I assume you also want reimbursed for the time it took you to post your last message on here too? Why post anything at all? Is the goal to have your ego stroked on here or is it to tune/crack an ecu?

Regardless, your first post on the subject (just in this thread) is from 10/16/2005. So go ahead and keep your secrets, I was just offering to help put you in front of people who actually have successfully reverse engineered two completely different generations of EMS' that are both light years more advanced, in about a year. The first step to helping you is to determine where you need assistance (you obviously do) and what work you actually have completed beyond the interface. Are there checksums? What have you been doing? Is the implementation non-standard? Are you mapping unknown memory or something? Do you have the correct de-compiler? What stage are you at? By keeping everything secret, I suppose you're scheming to make $millions$ developing somthing for an old platform that the OEM isn't even interested-in, and what, you'll be finished in another 5 years or so?

Maybe I'll dump it and go ahead throw it up on my site. Doing research and dumping a chip or two isn't hard and usually isn't very expensive, especially when a person already has access to readers and when it's *likely* (a guess based-on volume) the box is built from 100% off the shelf components...

FastHatch

Right, the first post was from 2005 where I said that it would be *possible* to reflash the PFC. No one further investigated in that area. Where have you been in the last 4 years? I just recently bought the required flash programmer as well as all other equipment.


Damn right, I'll be a millionaire soon



Feel free to dump "a chip or two" and put it on your site. Lets see how you dump a proprietary NEC CPU with your eBay EPROM reader

Trionic

iTrader: (4)

And a early/mid 80's NEC chip is more difficult than a late '90's proprietary Motorolla? At least we're getting somewhere with the information sharing. So now we know that processor is proprietary. Now, how about the instruction set implimentation? Have you had success with any custom IDA scripts? That's how I'd do it...

But keep at it dude, good luck; I was just offering to help. You're apparently too talented and capable to need any assistance, the gold is all yours. I expect an update before 2014! I'm subscribed.

FastHatch

Get your facts straight.


Oh really, that's how you'd do it? Too bad that the CPU isn't supported by IDA Feel free to contact your local NEC distributor to get a quote for the RA78K4. Life sucks when the equipment isn't free, doesn't it?

Trionic

iTrader: (4)

Facts straight? I'm not the one that's been "working" on this for 4 years or whatever. I repeated what you wrote. If it's not an '80's NEC chip then why did you write that it was? Like I wrote before, is this thread here to feed your ego or is it to make progress with an ECU. Apparently it's the former. SHould I just write how great you are and give you a wish list, that you don't have a prayer to ever impliment, like everyone else? Is that the proper response?

And Free? As in like I didn't buy IDA? You are mistaken sir. I only see one thing that sucks here.

Send me a PM when you want some help and I'll make the introductions.

FastHatch

How can I work on this for 4 years when I just have the equipment for a month now


I never said it was.


No thanks. I prefer to turn to my colleagues and friends for help. Over and out.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

So the speed based limiter for drag launches can be set but it would be a fuel limiter rather then an ignition cut? Or does enabling that feature automatically make it an ignition limiter at 0 mph? I wouldn't want to be fuel cutting on a drag launch at 5 k....

FastHatch

It is much easier to modify the code for the rev limiter than adding an ignition cut. I'm not saying that it is not possible, I just don't have the understanding yet to do it and I don't want to promise features I'm not certain of.

I have to build a simulation environment for the PFC so that I can test the input and outputs.