ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

I just rebuilt my motor and need a safe map to break it in. I have only put about 50 miles on it with the base mod map and it is not working for me. I can lean out my idle but i don't have a datalogic or widband so i can't really touch anything else. I am getting some pretty high knock so i need something a bit safer.

My mods are:
fresh rebuild w/ RA seals & oem springs
ported motor (small porting on primaries & large porting on secondaries I can provide pix if needed)
T04R =1.0 ex A/R
Tial 46mm WG
550/1600 injectors
Supra TT fuel pump
Sard FPR (base pressure is set at about 40psi)
PFC w/comander obviously
full exhaust (no cats)
removed air pump( and other emmisions junk)
Greddy pully kit
SS MOP lines
2-4 oz. of premix per gallon for safety
Other reliability mods

My ignition is currently stock and I'm currently running all 9s. I will however have an HKS twin power , new spark plugs(10s), And a new fuel filter when i am finally ready to get a full street tune.

I also replaced both rotor and main bearings so this will be a long break-in

Steve Kan will be here next weekend to tune @ the tulsa BBQ And I know I won't even be close to broken in then. but I will see if he can load a map that will get me by untill I can fully break in the motor and make it back to gotham to turn the boost up.(Kan tuned my car perfectly on the twins and I don't plan on letting anyone else touch it)

I've been searching for the past 3 days and there seems to be very little info available about ignition maps on ported motors other than the obvious retarded timimg. So if someonw can help me out here i would greatly appreciate it.

Cyan

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Without a DL you can not even setup your injectors correctly, how were they done?

High knock on 50 miles breakin? You should not even be into boost until after 500 and then that is light boost for another 500. If you are seeing high knock when not on boost, it is most likely metal hitting metal noise in the drivetrain/exhaust. This will have to be fixed befor going tuning.

I totally stock map except for injector setup is perfect for initial breaking in an engine as you should not be getting into boost over about 2psi.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

Right now my secondaries are only set up for 1500(sence i have no DL)

I have not boosted once but while cruising at a constant speed (ex.2700rpm) my knock sensor sometimes randomly jump up to about 140-160. it even hit 200 once. This was all done in vacume. I've spent to my time and money on this project to risk boosting before break-in.

I also haven't even gone up to 4k rpm yet, and sence I have new bearings I plan to stay under 4k untill about 2k miles

When you say totally stock map do you mean base stock or base mod? I was using the base mode map from here....http://opus.bloomcounty.org/~patrick/pfc/ But I beleive my porting is greatly affectly drivability on this map

There seems to be plenty of fuel but (smells very rich) but i am worried about the ignition maps. I will try the base stock map today and see how it goes.

"If you are seeing high knock when not on boost, it is most likely metal hitting metal noise in the drivetrain/exhaust"

Oh yea, I just though of something that could be affecting my knock reading. My DP did not line up correctly with the MP so it is not currently connected. It sits above the MP. I plan on taking it to a muffler shop to see if they can fix it for me tomorrow morning. Do you think this could affect the knock?

Could you list all the settings for the injectors that are changeable with the commander so i can check them to mine and make sure i'm on the right track(other than the limited 1500 sec)

Thanks for taking the time to help.
Cyan

xblazinlv

My knock sensor does the same thing, in cruising speeds for break-in I'm seeing like 150-200 on the knock meter in vacuum while driving with no boost. I'd like to know how you can fix that part of the problem as well, as it is really annoying and basically makes the knock sensor useless.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

^ what map are you using right now?

xblazinlv

I'm using the base mod map for break-in..... it seems fine, just a bit rich at idle and cruise. I pulled my plugs last night due to hard start issues and they were fouled pretty bad, completely covered in black. I'm going to run the base mod map until I'm done with break in then switch to a de-tuned version of Chuck's non-sequential twin timing map for my street port (his was stock port) and do the fuel tuning myself with my wideband and logger.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Most maps have almost the exact timing for the idle, cruise and up to 0 boost.
Thus any will do for breaking in an engine. You only have to worry about properly setting up the injectors and make sure your not running too rich.

You do not need a wideband O2 sensor to properly tune AFRs for idle through cruise, but it does help a little. Just adjust for leanest smooth running. I do it at idle, then in 4th gear starting at 30 mph then increase by 10 mph up to 90mph.
To properly tune the whole map as Kyle and I have done, takes a long time and would be too expensive to pay someone to do, but cheaper to buy a map already done and then adjsut it a little. It depends on how fanactic you are. Most people only care about idle and power. But wait until you drive a very modded car that has been completeyy tuned, then you will feel the difference.

I suggest that you get a DL and lean to tune your own car if you really want a car that runs great under all conditions.

With such low miles on the engine, it would not be wise to power tune the engine yet. Just wait and have Steve setup your new map properly for all your mods, and only tune the idle and cruise areas. Later on when the engine id fully broken in, then start tunning boost.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

I'm not wanting a map for power just something that will get me by. while i break-in with easy driving. Like i Said the only reason i was considering a new map was BC of the random high knock. I hope when i get my exhaust done it will help. Like you said it could be the metel to metal contact. And it happens completely randomly. I will be cruising and a constant speed and RPM when all of a sudden out of nowhere the nock reading will flash up and right back down. with a peak sometimes as high as 200 . the motor doesn't stunble at all or anything but it still scares the hell out of me. I'm gonna load the Base stock map and recheck my injector settings. Hopefully i can get my exhaust done tomorrow and if i do i'm report back with the results.

Thanx again,
Cyan

xblazinlv

Definitely just use the base map for break in, no need for anything else.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

I just noticed that i write 2-4oz. od premix per gallon instead of per tank lol

Rayrx7

I have the same problem ,i have high Knock readings under cruisin conditions.
But i have an broken 5th sincro ring and an Diff that make little noise.
Can this the problem cause. Then under boost the readings gone back to 15-30.
The max. readings are 80-105 under cruising.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

I went for another little cruise tonight with the base stock map. And everything It seemed to be running a bit smoother but still at any givin moment between 2500 and 3500 RPM my knock would just jump over 100.

Then I noticed it started stumbling when decelerating. But when there was even the smallest load on the motor(not boost) for example going upill it stopped and smoothed out

I looked at the map tracer and this was generally happening in cells N05-N08/ P05-P08

Then Let the motor idle and it was surging from about 1k-15k RPM. when I got back to the garage I popped the hood and heard the damned hissing noise. So i'm thinking oh great my first vacuume leak. I'm i have to find where it is coming from with an open DP. of course it ened up being on the back of the uim under the ISC.

I got that fixed and started it back up The idle surged for a second then settled back down. Then it started surging again. And if there was/is another smaller vacuum leak i can't hear it over my loud @$$ DP. I pulled the spark plugs and cleaned them off. The rear plugs had a lot more carbon on them than the front.

I'm tired of messing with the car today so i'll put them back in tomorrow and probably let my PFC re"learn" how to idle. I think i'll probabbly do my first compression test(piston tester) sence the rebuild and get some baseline #s

I've got just under 100 miles....At this rate it will take me forever to get this thing broken in. I really need this smoothed out so i can go more than a few miles away from home. lol

mark57

Knock sensor values are only legitimate when the engine and driveline are loaded up together under some amount of acceleration. High knock values at idle, low load, and cruise are meaningless artifact; such as DLSN = driveline slop noise or something that isn't rubber-isolated but should be.

The idle surge - does it appear to as a circling hunt of Map Trace with and without Ghost? That means you've got some too lean and too rich neighboring idle cells; it cause the RPM to "chase its tail" cyclically. Gotta lean out/richen the offending cell(s).

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

It's an easy thing, but make sure you have the trailing plug wires on rigth - T1 to front rotor, T2 to rear rotor. If you swap them, you can have light detonation even at cruise/low load. Just want to cover that base .

My knock counts when cruising are consistently low - like 20-30 counts. About 40ish is the highest I've seen normally under full throttle. With a test midpipe and a boost spike, I saw higher knock counts (like 60ish), which makes me believe mine is acting like it should.

I'd get the exhaust fixed before doing anything else. What DP/Midpipe do you have? My cheapo $40 Ebay midpipe (I got it because it was only $40, and I wanted to experiment with it) had lousy fit and pulled the cat-back way up high so it was bumping the frame of the car. My SMB metal cat fits like a glove, though . It's worth it to get quality exhaust components with good fit - hell, get it used. I got a Bonez downpipe off Ebay once for $40 just because it was rusty looking - had it ceramic coated, better than new.

Dale

Rayrx7

I chek my exhaust setup....have an Knight sport Downpipe and an Pettit High Flow Cat and M2 Catback.If the brocken 5th gear syncro is not the issue,isnt it?

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

That is exactly what i need to hear. OK so I won't worry about the knock in vacuum anymore. And that is exactly how my map trace reacts. But i don't have a DL or wideband so i can't safely start pulling out fuel. (Now I know i need Kan to adjust my maps when he gets to town. Just hope he will still have a spot available for me)

I'm sure I've got my wires hooked up right but it never hurts to double check.

I don't know for sure what MP i have but it came with the car when i bought it along with the Greddy PE CB. I like the sound of this setup and my MP looks to be in pretty good shape so i'll be keeping it. The DP is from the rx7sore turbo kit. IT doesn't fit well at all. The back section is hitting the bottom of the car so it sit way to high for the MP. And this is also causing a leak where the DP meats the turbo. Still need to get to a muffler shop to see if they can remedy this)

Thanx for the help guys. I'll be sure to keep you updated.

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

Well I got up bright and early to do the idle learn procedure And flooded the car. After a lot of frustion flooding and unflooding the car i figured out i have to open the aie bleed screw under the TP about 2 full turns open just to get the car to idle otherwise it would die. I guess this could be due to the porting or just the fact that the motor id brand new and is still trying to build compression. When i finaly got everything dialed in ( TPS, idle scews, throttle cable, and leaning out a few of the fuel cells that the car idles in i finally got the car running smoother. still plenty of room for improvement though. Anyway by now i don't have time to get my car to the muffler shop early enough for them to do the jb in one day. And i'm not comfortable at all leaving it anywhere over night. So I'll take it in first thing tomorrow morning. But i did notice that the car was running so much better today. There was minimal stumbling and even when it did it wasn't too bad. I was able to get up to cruising speeds 50+ with no hesitation problems. And the idle seems to continuously try to learn as it seems to get better the longer it runs still. It still need to learn to idle with the A/C on though( it was surging slightly)

The stupid knock was still doing it's thing but the car running very well(still in vacuum of course)

Anyway I am running the base "STOCK" map as the timing maps seem to be a bit more conservative, and i don't plan on seeing any sort of boost for a while.

Hopefully tommorrow I can get my exhaust fixed up and finally be able to hear myself think while in the car. Stay tuned.... updates coming as project unfolds.


Cyan

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

They exhaust was fitted yesterday with very minor modifications and the car is sooooooo much nicer to drive. Almost seems like it idles a bit better you. And now i can drive into town withough worrying about being pulled over lol.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

talk to john Jbenny on here... ask him if he has a map sutable for you!

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

Thanx man but Steve Kan was here yesterday to tune At our Rotary BBQ and he set up my pfc and adjusted my maps for me. The idle and cruise are perfect now. But i found out that the reason it doesn't idle good sometimes is my front primary injector is sticking. The injectors were cleaned and flow tested my RX engineering but after i got them done they sat in my room for about 2-3 months before being installed and i'm told the stuff they used to clean them is known to gunk up the injector if not used shortly after. So he recommended zapping it with a 12V source. If this doen't work I'll probably just buy a new one.


Thanx
Cyan

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

Well i got the injector ustuck but the problem did not go away. Steve had aslo mentiong the coils might be the problem. Well i just got my new FD trailing, & FCleading coil in the mail as well as my jacobs fc1000 amp and hooked it all up. When i fired it up all was well. So not only was my injector stucking but also my coils were crap. Anyway only about 9000 more break-in miles