Silver Ninety Three

Does the power fc have an intake temperature correction map?

Badog

Ihor,

Yes the PFC has a correction factor based on temperature. The stock ECU correction factors are woefull for moddifed cars, and the PFC base map'ed correction are marginally better. This has been a major "screwup" point for some major tuners. They tune a car at a certain temperature with no change in the correction factors for when you're not at that same temperature.

Tony

Silver Ninety Three

Where can this map be found? The only one I see with the commander is the water temp correction map. Perhaps it can only be accessed through the datalogit?

nocab72

datalogit only, yes.

XLR8NG

Tony,

What do you suggest be programmed into the PFC to improve on their correction factors for temperature?

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

Fair warning for those with stock air intake sensors in stock location ...

The temp correction factors can pull as much as 7% fuel out of the mix when the intake sensor is hot but the intake air is cold as ice. Park a warm car for awhile and look at your intake air temp, then go drive and watch how slow it is to cool off. Initially, you will be running lean until your intake air temp sensor cools off and starts reading close to actual air temp. People wonder why motors pop during the winter, I bet this scenario has cost a motor or two.

Silver Ninety Three

I've been thinking of relocating the sensor for some time. Its got to heat soak under that manifold. Where is the best place to relocate it? I was thinking on the intercooler outlet pipe, but how far from the core?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

This is good stuff. Keep it comin', guys.

I dunno Ihor....there has to be another reason as to why you're flowing enough fuel to power a damn twin turbo viper. It's got me stumped.

Badog

Ihor,

Welcome to the "its-a-good-idea-to-relocate-the-IAT-sensor" club. Nocab72 and I have been lonely with the only 2 members we know about. I'll send you the secret handshake and related information in the mail!

We've moved the IAT sensor mid-way between the TB and the IC-OUT. Amazing what moving it does in terms of response times. Someone has a story they could tell about new "MINI" sensors, sensor theives, and trials and tribulations of JB-Weld too.

Not sure about the best, but when we put our noggins together, that is where er came up with. I monitored intake air, IC-OUT air, water and oil temps through some weather.

Tony

Badog

XLR8NG: Cool handle! I wish I would have thought of that for my plates.

Depends on your mods and your start point. I believe that the correction factors are a very important part of tuning. A tuner with some miles under their belt will be able to get you into a safe zone, without draining the tank each time the weather drops. I good one will have some equations setup so that when they tune your car they can predict what you'll need to stay near your tuning goals.

So, the stock factors suck for heavily modded cars, most "tuners" will dump loads of fuel "blindly" into the factors (if they even know about it) and the better ones will be able to adjust when tuning your car and still maintain your goals.

Ramp up the fuel @ +30C slowly, then more aggresive at +10C and -10C. Picture a line between any 2 of those points. The slope should be different for the first 2 than the last 2 (middle one shared). It's just as crude as tuning via INJ ADJUSTments.

Drive it up to INDY for the meet next year, or up here to oHIo for some tunage.

You wouldn't happen to be Terence, would you?

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

Badog,

You mentioned response time after moving the stock sensor upstream of the TB ... could you post a datalog (map watch) file that shows the response time? I assume with the sensor properly located that during a 4th gear pull one might actually see a change in the intake air temperature. Also curious if your relocated intake air temp sensor heat soaks like the stock location after the car is shut off.

Thanks in advance!

Kyle

XLR8NG

TONY,

TERENCE IT IS!

THANKS FOR THE INFO. I HAVE MY DIY-WB UP AND WHIRRING. WHEN IS YOUR INDY MEET ?

Badog

Terence,

I have a new map for you, unless you have changed the last one I put on. Let's take this to email and I can "tweak" your tune via email.

Tony

Badog

Kyle,

You guys need to move that sensor. While it does heatsoak a little when the car is shutdown, it does react better outside of the "hunk-of-metal-heatsink" in the stock location. At least it reacts....albeit slowly (it's not very not a fast-acting sensor).

I'll put a short log up at here to look at.

Tony

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

Looks like it's still a bit slow even when relocated.

I did some testing today with my water injection (finally rigged up a manual switch to engage it from the cabin). While hwy cruising with a steady 25C intake I rolled into the throttle for about 5 seconds and sprayed, only boosted to about 5 psig at about 50% throttle ... no change in the intake air temp.

Well, about 10 seconds later the intake air temp dropped about 3 or 4 degC!!! Gotta relocate the sensor and try again. Water injection really cools the intake charge but with our crappy sensor it's difficult to really nail the fuel maps to perform consistently from summer to winter, or water vs no water.

Badog

Oh yeah, it's slow. Nocab and I were going to have a quick action sensor figured out but the one we got for testing (from the manufacturer) was for IC / Computer chips. A little TOO small. Might have to pick this project back up again, Kyle.

It's slow, but I cannot understand why the Mazda engineers designed it in its stock location. Makes no sense, from an engineering standpoint.

Tony

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

I agree about the location, must have been a decision by the packaging engineers on the design team.

If you ever see a Japanese model 2-rotor (Jspec?)you will find the intake air temp sensor on the intake elbow just upstream of the TB.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

When I first talked to Ralph at Xcessive motorsports, he said, one of the first things to do was relocate the sensor...so you guys can add me to the relocated temp sensor club too. CJ

Silver Ninety Three

Well figure out the problem when I took it to dyno tune. Wasn't the correction map. When I installed the 3 bar map sensor I didn't "tell" the pfc to remap the fuel cells to accomodate the larger boost range. Dave corrected it and now my duty cycles at 20 psi are in the low 80's.

Badog

Ahhh. About where we have ours. Actually, closer to the IC-HOT side than the TB. But that makes sense.

Badog

Oh yeah, that will do it. If you don't change the map resolution (I don't think its exactly a remaping) to reflect the expanded range, and try to run higher than stock sensor boost (read: over 17psi) then all you'll get is what the last cells were before you "exited" the map. Example, run over 8000rpm and over 1.5bar, and no matter what RPM and boost you are over that, you will get the settings for N20, P20.

Nocab changed the resolution really nicely, decreased the vacuum rows and changed from 400rpm to 500rpm steps up.

Ihor, how did you/Dave do it?

Badog

Ralph @ Xcessive know his sheet, sounds like. Where is he located?

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Way out in here in Oregon. Actually, he's in aloha, just west of beaverton, Oregon.

And Ralph realy does know his stuff. CJ

Badog

Let me make a guess...does Ralph know Ray @ PineApple, like really well? Would you happen to know?

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Yeah Ralph knows Rob. Why do you ask? CJ