Power FC huge starting problem!!!
01-16-03, 06:19 PM
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huge starting problem!!!
okay...here is the story. just installed a new motor from pineapple. here are the mods:
Large Street Port
3mm seals
10.5 leading plugs
9 trailing plugs
magnacore wires
did non-sequential on the twins
installed block-off plates where the plates went
the only solinoids remaining are the FPR, puge control for the charcoal canister, and wastegate control
just dropped in Rx7.com 500hp fuel pump
power fc w/ datalogit software
i think that is all the mods that may have a problem. during the install, we started the motor at least 6 times with no problem. then we finally get the wheels on and drive the car around town with no problem. it ran so smooth and awesome! i brought it in that night to let it sleep and the next moring go to start it. it starts fine. it ran for about a minute then i lost the idle so it died. when i go to start it again it is hella flooded. the plugs where covered in fuel. i pulled the relay and cranked it over to let it dry out. next day i shove some ATF in it just to help with some compression and it starts perfect. i drive it for about 60 miles without a problem. when i arrived at school i shut off the car. just to check if it would start, i waited a bit and cranked it over. it started fine. we drove around a bit more then brought it in for the night. the next day i go to buy books and the car is flooded again! it is way to cold to really work on it, so i let it just sit for a couple days. i just went out to try it again and it is still flooded. i have gotten so use to the smell of fuel it isn't funny! i didn't make any changes to fuel at vacuum. so why when i let it sit with the turbo timer on it floods the next day? can anybody give me some timing tips and fuel tips for idle. i am not boosting at this point...so i'm not worried about fuel at boost...i already made the change to 15-20% more fuel under boost thanks to nocab. i called pineapple and he said since everything is new (housings and all) it is not common for it to flood. can somebody please help me!!! I JUST WANT MY CAR TO START...AND NOT FLOOD SO I CAN HEAD DOWN TO TEXAS FOR THE DYNO TUNE!
Large Street Port
3mm seals
10.5 leading plugs
9 trailing plugs
magnacore wires
did non-sequential on the twins
installed block-off plates where the plates went
the only solinoids remaining are the FPR, puge control for the charcoal canister, and wastegate control
just dropped in Rx7.com 500hp fuel pump
power fc w/ datalogit software
i think that is all the mods that may have a problem. during the install, we started the motor at least 6 times with no problem. then we finally get the wheels on and drive the car around town with no problem. it ran so smooth and awesome! i brought it in that night to let it sleep and the next moring go to start it. it starts fine. it ran for about a minute then i lost the idle so it died. when i go to start it again it is hella flooded. the plugs where covered in fuel. i pulled the relay and cranked it over to let it dry out. next day i shove some ATF in it just to help with some compression and it starts perfect. i drive it for about 60 miles without a problem. when i arrived at school i shut off the car. just to check if it would start, i waited a bit and cranked it over. it started fine. we drove around a bit more then brought it in for the night. the next day i go to buy books and the car is flooded again! it is way to cold to really work on it, so i let it just sit for a couple days. i just went out to try it again and it is still flooded. i have gotten so use to the smell of fuel it isn't funny! i didn't make any changes to fuel at vacuum. so why when i let it sit with the turbo timer on it floods the next day? can anybody give me some timing tips and fuel tips for idle. i am not boosting at this point...so i'm not worried about fuel at boost...i already made the change to 15-20% more fuel under boost thanks to nocab. i called pineapple and he said since everything is new (housings and all) it is not common for it to flood. can somebody please help me!!! I JUST WANT MY CAR TO START...AND NOT FLOOD SO I CAN HEAD DOWN TO TEXAS FOR THE DYNO TUNE!
Last edited by Mikey; 01-16-03 at 06:23 PM.
01-16-03, 08:58 PM
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Something is not turning off the flow of fuel.
Because the first time you noticed the problem it simply died and failed to restart, I can't see how this is turbo timer related. Since that is what you think (turbo timer related probelm) here are some thoughts.
If you do not use the turbo timer, does it flood? If it doesn't, I would say you may have a turbo timer related wiring problem that is keeping the injectors open and draining the fuel in the line. If it floods turbo timer or not, you may have (a) leaky (or dirty) injector(s).
Test (a)
One way to check is to do the following. Turn off the turbo timer completely. Install a remote toggle switch in line with the fuel pump fuse. When you park, flip the switch to off. Run the engine until the car dies from fuel starvation. When you get ready to drive it the next morning, turn the fuel pump back on a few seconds before you turn the key. If it starts and continues to run then remove the toggle switch and try the next test.
Test (b)
Bypass the turbo timer completely (wire around it or take it out of the system). If the car floods the next morning it is NOT your turbo timer or its wiring keeping an injector open.
If not "a" and not "b" then you likely have a leaky injector that is not capable of withstanding the pressure from the new high flow fuel pump. The leaky injector allows the fuel that remains in the line to enter the intake after shut down. If that is so it is time to replace or clean the injectors.
Good luck
Because the first time you noticed the problem it simply died and failed to restart, I can't see how this is turbo timer related. Since that is what you think (turbo timer related probelm) here are some thoughts.
If you do not use the turbo timer, does it flood? If it doesn't, I would say you may have a turbo timer related wiring problem that is keeping the injectors open and draining the fuel in the line. If it floods turbo timer or not, you may have (a) leaky (or dirty) injector(s).
Test (a)
One way to check is to do the following. Turn off the turbo timer completely. Install a remote toggle switch in line with the fuel pump fuse. When you park, flip the switch to off. Run the engine until the car dies from fuel starvation. When you get ready to drive it the next morning, turn the fuel pump back on a few seconds before you turn the key. If it starts and continues to run then remove the toggle switch and try the next test.
Test (b)
Bypass the turbo timer completely (wire around it or take it out of the system). If the car floods the next morning it is NOT your turbo timer or its wiring keeping an injector open.
If not "a" and not "b" then you likely have a leaky injector that is not capable of withstanding the pressure from the new high flow fuel pump. The leaky injector allows the fuel that remains in the line to enter the intake after shut down. If that is so it is time to replace or clean the injectors.
Good luck
Last edited by jeff48; 01-16-03 at 09:02 PM.
01-17-03, 12:16 AM
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What are your primary injectors? Are you using an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?
Pull the primary and secondary injectors and triple check those O-rings. That will cause you to leak the line fuel pressure into the combustion chamber. Also, if you're using a freakin' high pressure pump (not to be confused with f*ckin') you might be blowing by perfectly good O-rings, too! Get an an aftermarket regulator with that pump or drop the stock pump back for a test.
I think it be a combination of both. A pinched O-ring on the injector and huge line pressure when you shut down.
If you are running an aftermarket regulator (what model and who did you get it from...there is a reason for this question), make sure the return line is actually working!!!
Tony
Pull the primary and secondary injectors and triple check those O-rings. That will cause you to leak the line fuel pressure into the combustion chamber. Also, if you're using a freakin' high pressure pump (not to be confused with f*ckin') you might be blowing by perfectly good O-rings, too! Get an an aftermarket regulator with that pump or drop the stock pump back for a test.
I think it be a combination of both. A pinched O-ring on the injector and huge line pressure when you shut down.
If you are running an aftermarket regulator (what model and who did you get it from...there is a reason for this question), make sure the return line is actually working!!!
Tony
01-17-03, 05:52 AM
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Baddog
Good call, (7s hate all kinds of O rings) bad/pinched O rings and even moderate fuel pressure can cause this problem.
Mikey
Try Baddog's plan 1st. If the flooding continues try my testing suggestion.
Good call, (7s hate all kinds of O rings) bad/pinched O rings and even moderate fuel pressure can cause this problem.
Mikey
Try Baddog's plan 1st. If the flooding continues try my testing suggestion.
01-17-03, 08:03 AM
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Jeff
It's only through the pain of experience that I know about that one. Plus, trying to run 850's in the primary slots without grinding the fuel rail or doubling up with the proper 'rings led to alot of tribulations. Then learning why Viton and not rubber was another lesson.
Tony
It's only through the pain of experience that I know about that one. Plus, trying to run 850's in the primary slots without grinding the fuel rail or doubling up with the proper 'rings led to alot of tribulations. Then learning why Viton and not rubber was another lesson.
Tony
01-17-03, 03:14 PM
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i am using the stock FPR. i don't think it can be the o-rings because i never took out the individual injectors. i just took off the "unit" they are in and stuck them back down into the intermediate housing. they are the stock 550s for the primarys. ummm i kind of trashed the stock fuel pump, but i do have a new walbro one i didn't use...will that one not push the regulator to the max?
thanks,
mike
thanks,
mike
01-30-03, 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mikey
i am using the stock FPR. i don't think it can be the o-rings because i never took out the individual injectors. i just took off the "unit" they are in and stuck them back down into the intermediate housing. they are the stock 550s for the primarys. ummm i kind of trashed the stock fuel pump, but i do have a new walbro one i didn't use...will that one not push the regulator to the max?
thanks,
mike
i am using the stock FPR. i don't think it can be the o-rings because i never took out the individual injectors. i just took off the "unit" they are in and stuck them back down into the intermediate housing. they are the stock 550s for the primarys. ummm i kind of trashed the stock fuel pump, but i do have a new walbro one i didn't use...will that one not push the regulator to the max?
thanks,
mike
Even attached to the fuel rail (having a hard time picturing what you did) you would still expose at least the bottom O-ring...which would/could get pinched. It is the smallest diameter one. If it was the top one, you would know it. Think spray up, versus down.
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