Hello, everyone. I'm having issues with cold start idling. I'm using a basemap provided by Xavier and am using FC-Tweak in general. He provided me with tons of helpful information, but I'm starting to feel bad hounding him and I've really hit a wall and could use some help. I have read through 100 old threads, manuals, etc. at this point but I am simply too inexperienced to know what I don't know.

A bit of info on the build:
93 FD
725cc primaries, 2000cc secondaries
Full Radium Fuel setup w/ aftermarket 6/8AN* (Not 10AN) fuel lines @ 43.5 psi
New engine, small street port, straight pipe
Single Turbo/Apexi Boost controller

My car runs and idles fine under +80C temps. My issue at the moment is in the +10C range. I was under the assumption that I was running far too rich. With Xavier's help, I managed to get the car to crank over after lowering my +10C cranking mS to 55 down from 63. When it does turn over, it dies immediately. The water temp correction settings I tried ranged from 1.00 to 2.00 @ +10C, all resulting in the car dying. Under one instance, the car survived almost 10 seconds with the water temp correction settings at 1.00 and the Inj Adjust value for 1000rpm set to 80.0 though I can't replicate this. The car tends to start significantly easier if I shoot some oil into the intake manifold, but that's a poor fix that doesn't address the main issue.

Regularly when the car dies, I can turn the fuel pump off and crank the car over for a second before it dies again. I'm not sure if this is the result of a too rich fuel setting or if it's just extra fuel left over from the car dying.
I've tried increasing fuel and decreasing fuel, and I simply can't get the car to start on its own with the map. I've at this point pulled the ISC just to try things.
When I had the car running at operating temps the other day (Mechanic said it was a pain to get up to temp) it appeared to have a lean AFR of 17-19 at idle. I'm not sure if that information may help in the instance of cold starts, and my Lc-2 Wideband is having issues so I'm uncertain of the accuracy at this point. I'm unable to get any AFR value while cranking.

Thanks everyone, and I'd appreciate any and all suggestions at this point to get my newly built FD running.

 

you have a lot going on here....... for starters....... 10an fuel lines? grossly unnecessary. someone lied to you about something lol

ditch the base map you were given, reset the power fc and start over. with what you've described, the base power fc map with the correct injector settings will run and idle the car. even with it being ~10c it will still run and idle. its very rare that you need to make cranking ms adjustments. with the primaries you have, you definitely don't need to make any changes in those sections of the map. there's a possibility you may need to make a correction in the water temp section to help it idle BETTER but it will absolutely idle on its own. rich or lean, it will do it. this is why having a working wideband is important so you know which direction you need to go to correct it.

you need to sort out your wideband. without it, you're shooting in the dark with no target. huge waste of time. you wont get an afr value while cranking because there is no exhaust gas for the sensor to read because there is no combustion because the engine isn't running. with the car running fine at operating temp, i would like to rule out the possibility of you having an actual mechanical issue but it could be part of the problem. before troubleshooting that, you need to get the car to idle on its own and isolate the issues in the "tune".

 

Apologies, I mis-remembered and it was 6/8 an fuel lines.

As for the base map I was given, I do trust that it's configured correctly simply based off the guy making it is a PowerFC savant. I only adjusted cranking to where it would start, and the injector settings were properly set for me. You're suggesting that I try to run a heavily modified FD off the default map with my new injector settings? I'm obviously not a PFC Guru, but I'm worried of the possible damage that could cause, but I'm open to trying it.

My Wideband issues are strictly that the gauge doesn't appear to work, but when plugging it into my computer it seems to pull. I only was uncertain of the accuracy because it said 17-19 when my mechanic thought it was rich. This *IS* a brand new LC-2, that was properly working before my rebuild and probably has less than 20 hours of run time.

 

yes

audibly, overly rich or too lean can sound almost the same. wideband sensors have been known to go bad from just sitting. it depends how it was stored. whatever number is showing on the gauge is the number that is being produced. it wont differ from the laptop and the gauge. the innovate has a calibration process, try it and see if it changes anything. its really hard to damage an engine at idle and there is little to risk of that for this circumstance. very simply, it is fuel tuning. either it will run or not run.

based on your equipment, there's no reason (other than a mechanical or component issue) that it wont start and idle on the stock power fc map and the correct injector settings. you will absolutely need to adjust sections of the map to allow it to run BETTER as it will be lean/rich in certain spots but the default map will run it fine without risk to anything. i would refrain from referring to your set up as "heavily modified". its injectors and a turbo. you're a lot closer to stock than "heavily modified".

if the car will not run or idle then you will need to start troubleshooting components or question the quality of the engine reassembly.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll give it a shot today.

As for the gauge/laptop, my gauge is showing 22.5 as if it is throwing an error code and not reading. My laptop will read directly from the serial connection from the wideband controller and get an actual reading. Not sure why the gauge would die, but I will attempt to recalibrate it (We did this the other day as well)

As for the "heavily modified" portion, I had thought extra dowels, large turbo, rotor clearance , fuel system, etc. would be far different from stock. If that's not the case I'll take your word for it.

 

Note that the starting map I gave him, is simply what you've just described, that is the base PFC map with correct injector & boost sensor settings and some fuel map adjustments to the boost zone which won't have any effect on starting from cold. An AFR log file and an engine compression test will definitely shed more light on the issue.

 

does the car still have the Thermo-wax on it? if not its going to be an uphill battle to try and get it to run at ~800rpm when its cold

 

Unfortunately not. That said, before I upgraded to larger injectors and a single turbo, I also had the thermo-wax removed and it ran fine then.

 

perfect..... then he likely has a mechanical issue somewhere. he needs to troubleshoot components

 

Are you sitting on the PFC minimum pulse width while the car is warm? This will usually make your cold start corrections unconventional/non functional

Never had great success with running a larger primary injector than factory on a Power FC without some form of trade off.

If you got WOT while the car is cold, does it start and can you use throttle to keep the car on? Might help to post some videos.

Is It possible you have coolant in the chamber stopping it from starting cold?

 

It's possible. So far I have checked to make sure everything related to idle is within spec. Idle is great once warm and sits to whatever I set it to in the PowerFC.
I should note, my mechanic came by yesterday and started the car nearly instantly by pushing the throttle down 20%~
Once warm, the AFR sits at about 10.5-10.7. I did get logs of this just to make sure.
I believe it's too rich overall, it floods every time I try to start it without throttle, but I can't for the life of me figure out which portion of the basemap it is. I've tried adjusting cranking, water temp, and the RPM based injection %.

I've searched the forums a bit, but I can't find exactly how to see if I'm on the minimum pulse width.
I'm okay with trade-offs or high idles, just would like to be able to start the car without finding the 1% of throttle actuation that lets it start.
I haven't attempted WOT, but I can get it to start if I give it about 20% throttle, too much and it dies, too little and it dies.
Coolant in the chamber isn't an issue. It's a fresh rebuild, coolant level is the same, and no smell from exhaust.

I am currently letting my battery recharge. I will try to get you a video of what it is doing when it has fully charged, probably tomorrow.

By the way, does anyone know what the Inj +/- means on the FC-Edit logs? I've checked the only manual I have on it, and searched online unable to find it. When trying to start, this jumps up from 0 to nearly 500 right before my car dies, at peak obtainable idle.

 

To be honest. I know you said the engine is new but it sounds like all the symptoms of a low compression engine.