Engine Building Thoughts
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Hi Blake,
Im planning on getting a street engine built by you guys in the near future. Pineapples view on the use of new rotor housings, your water seals/ecentric thermal by-pass kit, and the emphasis on doing everything right the first time has really made me beleive you are the best rotary shop.
I plan on doing a 13b-rew ~400rwhp project on the stock twins if they are efficient enough. Large street port, doweled and pinned, oil mod and all the fuel/intake/full standalone and exhaust mods to go along with it. One of the things i love to see with any rotary build like this is a strong Hp/Torque ratio. A good friend of mine has a streetported engine with full microtech standalone he is at 286rwhp and 260rwt. Another rotary on you tube is 480rwhp and 440 torque on c-16. I would like to maximize my hp/torque ratio on my build. I have researched a little bit into this, one of the interesting things i have found, althought i dont know how accurate it is, is that the shape of the ports plays a big part in torque numbers. ie. porting the exhasut port horisontally to the extreme.
With all of this sayed... with what attitude are your ports shaped? Im assuming a 'large streetport' means porting the intake and exhaust ports? How can i maximize my hp/torque ratio? Are their any issues with maximizing hp/torque.. ie. should i change my focus to more important things?
In general i just want to know what pineapple thinks of this idea.
Thanks for your time blake.
Regards,
Ben
Im planning on getting a street engine built by you guys in the near future. Pineapples view on the use of new rotor housings, your water seals/ecentric thermal by-pass kit, and the emphasis on doing everything right the first time has really made me beleive you are the best rotary shop.
I plan on doing a 13b-rew ~400rwhp project on the stock twins if they are efficient enough. Large street port, doweled and pinned, oil mod and all the fuel/intake/full standalone and exhaust mods to go along with it. One of the things i love to see with any rotary build like this is a strong Hp/Torque ratio. A good friend of mine has a streetported engine with full microtech standalone he is at 286rwhp and 260rwt. Another rotary on you tube is 480rwhp and 440 torque on c-16. I would like to maximize my hp/torque ratio on my build. I have researched a little bit into this, one of the interesting things i have found, althought i dont know how accurate it is, is that the shape of the ports plays a big part in torque numbers. ie. porting the exhasut port horisontally to the extreme.
With all of this sayed... with what attitude are your ports shaped? Im assuming a 'large streetport' means porting the intake and exhaust ports? How can i maximize my hp/torque ratio? Are their any issues with maximizing hp/torque.. ie. should i change my focus to more important things?
In general i just want to know what pineapple thinks of this idea.
Thanks for your time blake.
Regards,
Ben
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Absolutely not, nor would you want to if you could. The apex seal height is different by about half. The RENESIS ones are questionable for the RENESIS, let alone a 13BT or any other engine.
3 Rotor Oil Flow and Boost
Hi Blake,
Great rotary information and a definate asset to the forum with real, expert advice. It's kind of like "Ask Mr. Wizard"! My question relates to the 3 rotor world. I have a Pettit Racing built 3 rotor engine with a street port. The car is currently at another shop undergoing a single turbo (T51) upgrade.
Question - what is a safe upper limit on boost for the car? I'm running water/methanol injection, a Haltech E11 v2 ECU, two fuel pumps with upgraded fuel system, upgraded ignition components including AMPs and coils as well as other good stuff. The car is currently tuned to 540ish WHP at 15 pounds of boost but the tuner is very leary of going higher. He believes the car should have an oil flow modification to the center housing so the center rotor gets more oil flow thus preventing the bearings from spinning out. I know Pettit improves the oil passages internally on the engine and adds extra dowel pins, but this is not what the tuner is speaking about.
So, what are your thoughts on the 3 rotor and appropriate levels (if there is such a thing) of boost? How about your thoughts on oil flow modifications and their value?
Thanks and I look forward to your advice.
Great rotary information and a definate asset to the forum with real, expert advice. It's kind of like "Ask Mr. Wizard"! My question relates to the 3 rotor world. I have a Pettit Racing built 3 rotor engine with a street port. The car is currently at another shop undergoing a single turbo (T51) upgrade.
Question - what is a safe upper limit on boost for the car? I'm running water/methanol injection, a Haltech E11 v2 ECU, two fuel pumps with upgraded fuel system, upgraded ignition components including AMPs and coils as well as other good stuff. The car is currently tuned to 540ish WHP at 15 pounds of boost but the tuner is very leary of going higher. He believes the car should have an oil flow modification to the center housing so the center rotor gets more oil flow thus preventing the bearings from spinning out. I know Pettit improves the oil passages internally on the engine and adds extra dowel pins, but this is not what the tuner is speaking about.
So, what are your thoughts on the 3 rotor and appropriate levels (if there is such a thing) of boost? How about your thoughts on oil flow modifications and their value?
Thanks and I look forward to your advice.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 1
From: BC, Canada
I am printing out your post and will have Rob take a look and make comments for me to PM you back, but you might just want to call the shop and speak to Rob directly about it. Achieving specific goals efficiently requires a systems approach, so the turbo, fuel system, etc. will affect the porting and so forth. I would observe that for 400hp, you are probably looking at a GT35R or similar.
So has Rob gotten back to you on my question?
Thanks,
Ben
Blake,
Do you guys do full bridgeports?
I bought the streetport template from you guys and made over 600 RWHP with those ports on a GT42. If I were to bridgeport the motor but all else stays the same (except tuning) how much more HP do you estimate I can make on the bridgeport?
BTW - my friend got the engine stands and other parts super fast, thanks!
Anthony
Do you guys do full bridgeports?
I bought the streetport template from you guys and made over 600 RWHP with those ports on a GT42. If I were to bridgeport the motor but all else stays the same (except tuning) how much more HP do you estimate I can make on the bridgeport?
BTW - my friend got the engine stands and other parts super fast, thanks!
Anthony
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Hi Blake,
Great rotary information and a definate asset to the forum with real, expert advice. It's kind of like "Ask Mr. Wizard"! My question relates to the 3 rotor world. I have a Pettit Racing built 3 rotor engine with a street port. The car is currently at another shop undergoing a single turbo (T51) upgrade.
Question - what is a safe upper limit on boost for the car? I'm running water/methanol injection, a Haltech E11 v2 ECU, two fuel pumps with upgraded fuel system, upgraded ignition components including AMPs and coils as well as other good stuff. The car is currently tuned to 540ish WHP at 15 pounds of boost but the tuner is very leary of going higher. He believes the car should have an oil flow modification to the center housing so the center rotor gets more oil flow thus preventing the bearings from spinning out. I know Pettit improves the oil passages internally on the engine and adds extra dowel pins, but this is not what the tuner is speaking about.
So, what are your thoughts on the 3 rotor and appropriate levels (if there is such a thing) of boost? How about your thoughts on oil flow modifications and their value?
Thanks and I look forward to your advice.
Great rotary information and a definate asset to the forum with real, expert advice. It's kind of like "Ask Mr. Wizard"! My question relates to the 3 rotor world. I have a Pettit Racing built 3 rotor engine with a street port. The car is currently at another shop undergoing a single turbo (T51) upgrade.
Question - what is a safe upper limit on boost for the car? I'm running water/methanol injection, a Haltech E11 v2 ECU, two fuel pumps with upgraded fuel system, upgraded ignition components including AMPs and coils as well as other good stuff. The car is currently tuned to 540ish WHP at 15 pounds of boost but the tuner is very leary of going higher. He believes the car should have an oil flow modification to the center housing so the center rotor gets more oil flow thus preventing the bearings from spinning out. I know Pettit improves the oil passages internally on the engine and adds extra dowel pins, but this is not what the tuner is speaking about.
So, what are your thoughts on the 3 rotor and appropriate levels (if there is such a thing) of boost? How about your thoughts on oil flow modifications and their value?
Thanks and I look forward to your advice.
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Blake,
Do you guys do full bridgeports?
I bought the streetport template from you guys and made over 600 RWHP with those ports on a GT42. If I were to bridgeport the motor but all else stays the same (except tuning) how much more HP do you estimate I can make on the bridgeport?
BTW - my friend got the engine stands and other parts super fast, thanks!
Anthony
Do you guys do full bridgeports?
I bought the streetport template from you guys and made over 600 RWHP with those ports on a GT42. If I were to bridgeport the motor but all else stays the same (except tuning) how much more HP do you estimate I can make on the bridgeport?
BTW - my friend got the engine stands and other parts super fast, thanks!
Anthony
Those are good points. Thanks.
Anthony
Anthony
Glad that worked out for you. We don't have a bridgeport template for the REW at this point. In general, however, we normally don't recommend them unless you are really doing something crazy. By that, I mean something north of 700rwhp. It's not that a bridgeport won't make the numbers just as easy or perhaps easier but you are making a bunch of compromises for minimal gain. Idle quality, fuel economy, emissions, driveability, yadda yadda. If those things are unimportant to you, then by all means do it but don't expect monster gains over a streetport. Just my opinion.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Blake-
Can you talk about (a) rotor clearancing; and (b) retaining rotor gears? When are either of these things required (e.g., about 8500 rpm?), and how do you go about doing them? Do you use the snap ring method that RB uses to retain the gear? Or??
Just curious...
Can you talk about (a) rotor clearancing; and (b) retaining rotor gears? When are either of these things required (e.g., about 8500 rpm?), and how do you go about doing them? Do you use the snap ring method that RB uses to retain the gear? Or??
Just curious...
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Live Oak
Over Heated
Ok i got a 87 rx7 and the guy i got it from said it over heated on him and did not stop to let it cool down instead he drove it for 8 more miles. some people said that it can be rebuilt and some have said to buy another motor. what do you think
engine building
So for experience purposes, a floorsweeper as you call them, would be the best bet for a new or low experienced builder. Just replace exactly what is needed and build motor. I say this because, I don't think it would be ideal for a complete novice to build a through and through new motor. Everyone makes mistakes, and a floorsweeper for practice sakes would be the best bet for a first or even first few motor builds. Gaining knowledge and experience for the best build on a new motor.
Most of us work with tight budgets, I know I do. Though I'd love a fresh motor from you all it isn't possible for me. Though over time, I could get the new parts I would need, all the while learning the building experience building floorsweepers. Do you agree this would be my, and maybe a many of ours, best bets? After all, I would think the experience doing it would be as important as all the things you've mentioned in this thread. Do You Agree?
BTW, Thanks for all of this info. I believe I have found the shop and people I want to deal with now. Before I wasn't so sure of that.
Most of us work with tight budgets, I know I do. Though I'd love a fresh motor from you all it isn't possible for me. Though over time, I could get the new parts I would need, all the while learning the building experience building floorsweepers. Do you agree this would be my, and maybe a many of ours, best bets? After all, I would think the experience doing it would be as important as all the things you've mentioned in this thread. Do You Agree?
BTW, Thanks for all of this info. I believe I have found the shop and people I want to deal with now. Before I wasn't so sure of that.
Hi Blake. i don't know if this has been discussed before, but what do you do when "clearancing a motor"? where and what would help. don't need your specific specs. just what more knowledge on this subject. thanks in advance. justin
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 1
From: BC, Canada
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Spun rotor brg
Blake, I hope you don't mind...I'm bored. If you do mind, or disagree, just say so and I'll shut up and sit down. It's your thread.
I've seen a few. Most common is for the locating tab to get sheared and go through the rotor and stationary gear locking the motor up rather quickly. I grind the tabs off on any "race" engines I build for that reason. It'll at least save the stationary and takes no longer than marking it and lining it up on install.
MazdaComp says to use set screws to retain the brg, MFR rotors. IMO that's BS, one of the few things they say that I have to totally disagree with. Locktite works, I haven't see one spin with it yet. The set screw does little to keep the brg from turning and will lock the brg to the shaft if it moves even the slightest making for that much more damage.
The biggest preventative is still oil supply, not the part itself... The baffle plates do almost nothing to keep the pickup covered, it's just to deareate the oil. An accusump helps a lot and I consider a minimum for off-road stuff (not asphault, SCORE/Baja). Too many people forget this. If you run a TII in a light first gen with a stock pan (front sump) and some extra boost, where's the oil going when you get it hooked up at the strip? Not through the pump!!!
I've seen a few. Most common is for the locating tab to get sheared and go through the rotor and stationary gear locking the motor up rather quickly. I grind the tabs off on any "race" engines I build for that reason. It'll at least save the stationary and takes no longer than marking it and lining it up on install.
MazdaComp says to use set screws to retain the brg, MFR rotors. IMO that's BS, one of the few things they say that I have to totally disagree with. Locktite works, I haven't see one spin with it yet. The set screw does little to keep the brg from turning and will lock the brg to the shaft if it moves even the slightest making for that much more damage.
The biggest preventative is still oil supply, not the part itself... The baffle plates do almost nothing to keep the pickup covered, it's just to deareate the oil. An accusump helps a lot and I consider a minimum for off-road stuff (not asphault, SCORE/Baja). Too many people forget this. If you run a TII in a light first gen with a stock pan (front sump) and some extra boost, where's the oil going when you get it hooked up at the strip? Not through the pump!!!
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Blake, I hope you don't mind...I'm bored. If you do mind, or disagree, just say so and I'll shut up and sit down. It's your thread.
I've seen a few. Most common is for the locating tab to get sheared and go through the rotor and stationary gear locking the motor up rather quickly. I grind the tabs off on any "race" engines I build for that reason. It'll at least save the stationary and takes no longer than marking it and lining it up on install.
MazdaComp says to use set screws to retain the brg, MFR rotors. IMO that's BS, one of the few things they say that I have to totally disagree with. Locktite works, I haven't see one spin with it yet. The set screw does little to keep the brg from turning and will lock the brg to the shaft if it moves even the slightest making for that much more damage.
The biggest preventative is still oil supply, not the part itself... The baffle plates do almost nothing to keep the pickup covered, it's just to deareate the oil. An accusump helps a lot and I consider a minimum for off-road stuff (not asphault, SCORE/Baja). Too many people forget this. If you run a TII in a light first gen with a stock pan (front sump) and some extra boost, where's the oil going when you get it hooked up at the strip? Not through the pump!!!
I've seen a few. Most common is for the locating tab to get sheared and go through the rotor and stationary gear locking the motor up rather quickly. I grind the tabs off on any "race" engines I build for that reason. It'll at least save the stationary and takes no longer than marking it and lining it up on install.
MazdaComp says to use set screws to retain the brg, MFR rotors. IMO that's BS, one of the few things they say that I have to totally disagree with. Locktite works, I haven't see one spin with it yet. The set screw does little to keep the brg from turning and will lock the brg to the shaft if it moves even the slightest making for that much more damage.
The biggest preventative is still oil supply, not the part itself... The baffle plates do almost nothing to keep the pickup covered, it's just to deareate the oil. An accusump helps a lot and I consider a minimum for off-road stuff (not asphault, SCORE/Baja). Too many people forget this. If you run a TII in a light first gen with a stock pan (front sump) and some extra boost, where's the oil going when you get it hooked up at the strip? Not through the pump!!!
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Bump
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 3
Quote:
Bump
Originally Posted by bugeyebug
Blake-
Can you talk about (a) rotor clearancing; and (b) retaining rotor gears? When are either of these things required (e.g., about 8500 rpm?), and how do you go about doing them? Do you use the snap ring method that RB uses to retain the gear? Or??
Just curious...
Blake-
Can you talk about (a) rotor clearancing; and (b) retaining rotor gears? When are either of these things required (e.g., about 8500 rpm?), and how do you go about doing them? Do you use the snap ring method that RB uses to retain the gear? Or??
Just curious...
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: AZ
How did I know you'd say something like that? Still, I didn't ask so I figured the bump was worth a try. I try to be intentionally vague on numbers as well, but normally explain how they are machined and add something along the lines of "too much clearance is usually better than too little."
BTW, I like your exhaust templates. They look too good to not be a permanent part of the engine!
BTW, I like your exhaust templates. They look too good to not be a permanent part of the engine!