RETed

Uh, are we talking about drag racing?
An all-motor 10-second Honda engine can cost more than a 7-second turbo Honda engine...


-Ted

wptrx7

wow, i think this is a great idea. and to be able to get a motor and tranny for less than $4000
( http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=30013) i would do it. i've been looking at different possibilities for swapping out my 13b in my fd and this would be it, so if anyone wants fd parts look for my name in the parts for sale section, soon.

luigi

RX-Ben

Hmm...you can blow your money on a low hp and torqueless Honda setup or spend less money on an 350hp LS1 V8 that'll clean the clock of the F20C swapped RX7 on a drag strip and road course. And there is a good mount kit and large LS1-RX7 support group as well.

Ben

rynberg

Good thinking! Swap in a motor with less hp and torque!

Valkyrie

Honda swaps... good for Hachirokus, bad for 7s.

Whizbang

lol^^^

wptrx7

you can always add a turbo to the f20c to compensate for the power and the f20c seems that it would weigh less.

Whizbang

in truth, it saved a FC from certain death at a scrape yard. so i approve. now, it he took a mint FD took the motor out, stripped out the interior, i would firebomb him.

wptrx7

then your going to hate it when i do it to my mint, perfectly running fd and do it. i am personally tired of the rotary, but still favor the body of the car. to each is own... you know, kind of like you did with your mods. you did it cause htats what you wanted, right.

luigi

Whizbang

you best leave the interior!!!!

rynberg

SEEMS that it weigh less? How about getting the facts first? I would love to see the results you get with turbocharging an S2000 motor. And you think the 13B-REW lifespan of 80-100k is short? I don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about.

Then put in an LS1, it's a swap that makes sense. Putting in an S2000 engine is just plain stupid. By the time you get it to the power levels that a few basic bolt-ons make on a 13B-REW, you'll have a lot less reliable engine than the 13B-REW.

wptrx7

it doesn't weigh less than a v8, are YOU kidding me? and i am by no means looking for than 400, and i have seen f20c motors do more than that and yes i can prove that ( s2ki.com honda-tech.com ). and why does swapping a ls1 make more sense cause it has been done, and who does it make sense to me or you. and why do you assume i would go to this length and only have a few basic bolt ons, i plan on carrying this through till i get the results i am looking for.

luigi

RX-Ben

Go for it. Expensive, slow, complicated cars that don't run most of the time are popular around here.

wptrx7

"Expensive, slow, complicated cars that don't run most of the time are popular around here."

RX7 with rotaries can be fast, don't pick on them. sure they tend to blow up and sit on the side of the road or in a garage after you've spent a lot of money on them but because there are a lot of die hard rotary fans they stay around.

luigi

owen is fat

lol.
even some guys here are stuck withinexpensive, slow, complicated cars that don't run most of the time.

F20-->FC thats gutted and track ready? sure, why not?
F20--->FD? no thanks, use an LS1.

rynberg

You have no clue what you are doing.

I would GUESS that an S2000 motor with a turbo and all the associated parts (manifold, intercooler, plumbing) weighs very similar to an LS1. How about doing some researching instead of just talking out of your ***.

Big deal, you've seen S2000 motors hit 400 rwhp (I'd like to see the proof of THAT). As I said above, a boosted S2000 motor isn't going to last any longer than a modified 13B, so why bother?

No, an LS1 makes sense because it isn't really any longer than an S2000, is likely shorter (height-wise), has a lower center of mass, can make over 350 rwhp very reliably, and there's already support for the swap.

But, hey, again, if you want to perform a complicated swap (does the tranny line up?) to get less power and much less torque, only to end up with a possibly less reliable engine, go for it.

GDJ

Yeah props to the guy that did this. Lots of work and creativity. They probably could have bought a used S2000 for the price of building this. The F20 engine is one of the greatest 4-cyl engines ever made.

That being said, they sure spent alot of money to make this as fast as a stock TII. The LS1 makes alot more sense. Ok so this engine makes 120 HP per liter. So what? I'd still rather have an LS1 that makes 350 HP than the f20c which makes 240. And as you Honda tuners already know, the F20C does not respond well to bolt on mods. The K20/24 would be a better platform as it is much more responsive. The F20C is a strung out 4 cyl at it's limit. The LS1 is an easygoing engine that doesn't even break a sweat to make 350HP. Now if you boost the F20C, you might see 350whp. This engine is still young when it comes to boost. There are people out there that are pushing 350whp but I don't see any of them pushing 150k miles like LS1's.

owen is fat

well the F20 has been developed enough in the aftermarket that there are people running over 600hp from their turbo F20 motors... thats wild. sure its not reliable as stock but nobody expects that anyhow. there is no way a turbo F20 weighs as much as an LS1, especially when you consider the size of the LS1 trannies... theyre BIG... I mean, I know my T56 is double the size of the rotary tranny which is close to the F20 tranny in size.

oh well. if this F20FC became a boosted F20FC, then it would be a scary car, its lightened down to something like 2000 or 2200 pounds, imagine that with 400-500 hp on tap! wow! now thats fun! its just too bad the F20 isnt readily available like Hondas B16/B18c swaps (lol).

the guy that built this F20 FC did so, to keep an import motor in the FC to stay within the rules of the race class that he is in. no way could he do an LS1 sweap and still compete, so I give him props to thinking up a different route to get an awesome and competitive FC.

wptrx7

"I would GUESS that an S2000 motor with a turbo and all the associated parts (manifold, intercooler, plumbing) weighs very similar to an LS1. How about doing some researching instead of just talking out of your ***."

yes the 4 cylinder f20c weighs just as much as a v8 ls1 because the ic and all related piping (sarcasm off)...and i'm talking out of my ***. you my friend are a joke. i read that you are saying very similar in weight and by that you mean lighter, but close to the weight. isn't the whole point to be lighter. for example, the lotus elise, by no means does this car have gods amount of power but can see what in does (performance wise) with the amount of power in a lightened body.

and the f20c with the superchargers alone have been known to hit up to 350 hp. i don't see this as a bad idea, onlyy if you only consider that the rx7 must have a rotary mentallity. its my car, i guess i'll do as i please.

peace luigi

rynberg

We're all eagerly awaiting your conversion buddy. Be sure to post lots of pics, dyno results, and then how many miles the engine lasts before it grenades.....

wptrx7

i don't think you understand, i'm not putting a rotary in, so no grenading. ha ha

luigi

Whizbang

pull...one, two, three, THROW!



careful...honda shrapnel.

HEns

i saw this car a while back, and also its rotary sibling, a 13bt s2k.

the arguements on that forum thread were that, even though the f20c is a good engine, it is inferior to a 13bt, the 13bt revs more willingly, and has a better powerband in regard to torque and power. i agree.

as for the ls1 conversion, it would be much simpler then the f20c, and its alot easier to make better power.

owen is fat

you could throw money at either motor and make more power than you could put to the ground usefully.
-it just doesnt make sense to compare a turbo rotary to a nonturbo'd F20c.
-it makes sense to compare a non-turbo rotary to a non-turbo F20c, that I can understand.
-if you boost both motors then you have a good comparison and the turbo-F20c would be my choice for power and reliability, even though it may have more upfront cost... I would gladly pay a bit more for the reliability and power of the F20c no matter how you set it up.

"revs more willingly"? and how exactly is that measured?

HEns

i think its much easier to make bigger numbers more easily from a 13bt then a f20c. a boosted f20c is not going to be more reliable then a boosted 13bt that is prepped properly, if anything they will be just as reliable as each other. a stock f20c is not built to be boosted, highcompression n/a engines usually arent (and yes, i know ppl are getting excellent results with boosted v-tecs.)

anyway, as for revs more willingly you cant really measure it, its more personal bias.