rxing87

i want to keep my rails on my 87 but i want to do a motor swap
a v8 was sounding so nice until i found out i didnt want to do 360's
a sr 20 was sounnding better until i took a look at how its almost the same as v8 lengnth wise

now the sr20 is still in mind if the handling can stay on point if not i was thinnking v6 power or
a 20b most likely not a 20b because i keep hearing how they go out after 50k-100k miles (a little clarification wouldnt do to bad there)

does any1 know which of these are best when i want to keep my rails

v8-302 ford, 350chevy
sr20
v6 from 84-97 camaro
or maybe a 2jz
dont forget about the ls1
20b
:smiley_12

iceblue

Judging by the ? I doubt you will acomplish any of them. That set aside why would you swap for a less powerfull motor like a Sr20? It sounds like your naming off motors you hear on TFATF mentions things like a 2JZ. Do you have 10 to 15 grand to spend on this swap?

The best motor would be the 20B or LS1

Kingbob

there is a whole section dedicated to non-rotary engine swaps.
you can find it at
https://www.rx7club.com/other-engine-conversions-non-v-8-118/

If you're going to do the swap you should just put in a v8. The aluminium ones aren't any heavier and many of the cast iron ones aren't heavy enough for you to really notice.
But if you need help for the swap don't ask us. just search, it's been covered 18 thousand times

rxing87

swap for less power to make more power


says nuthing about handling

i need people who has done these swaps b4 and kept the rails

basicaly which engine is the same size length wise compared to the 13b

Nihilanthic

You do NOT need 15 grand to do a bolt in swap using granny or hinson stuff. If you want to spend that much you oculd have one hell of a motor making asmuch power as you want, period - and would probably have to spend some of that on beefing up the rear end and giving it longer gears so its not totally useless.

Ill agree a SR20 makes no sense - the increase in efficiency doesnt offset the .6 liter drop in displaceent. If he was about 2.3-2.4 liters or higher, it would make sense.

That said, Hinson is supporting the LS1, grant supports the LS1, LT1, SBC, SBF 302 and 351, v6s, and now the ford 2.3T.

Any of them would be ******* crazy for 15 grand, even if you somehow tried to buy excessively expensive parts just to use up the budget. ****, 15K gets you a LS7 crate motor!

rxing87

dude i need handling facts i turn corners at 25-49 mph+ and it rails

my friend drives an old style caprice classic boxed style and he cant di that i blame it on the motor weight distrobution

the ls1 was my 1st swap choice but cost same as a camaro
and i have thoughts of going with a fuel injected 6bangr

has any body done the 6 cylnder swap if so hows the handling

all information will help
im just not trying to run into handling problems after i do this due to the fact that i havnot changed from stock suspension. wouldnt it be harder to dail in after iv done the swap

iceblue

Don’t argue for the sake of arguing the comment was towards a 20b plus the poster express no wear near the ability to do that on his own, so you now have fabricator fees.

rxing87

you know jus waiting for handling info

does the 20b actually go out after 50k miles

Nihilanthic

How fast a rotary goes out (losing compression wise) is dependant on how much load you put on it.. boosting all the time = bad. Boosting a lot, but less of the time = still not so great.... tons of boost all the time = save up for new seals.

Going out as in knocking... well, whenever you ping!

A 20b has 50% more displacement than a 13b, and thus if its at the same power as a 13b it will last longer, but its still going to have compression degrade slowly over time.

Personally my reasons for not recommending a 20b is the expendature! IIRC, Hinson is making or has made 20b subframes, but only for the FD so far: http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/20Bsubframes.htm

Anyway, youd get much more for your dollar, with a longer life and better gas mileage going with a tried and tested v8 swap.

Also, as far as handling goes... no, it doesnt hurt the handling. Go ask Kukri how good his iron blocked v8 2nd gen handled in an autocross!

rxing87

nice anything on v6 swaps cus i have sumthing that will go and i mean go but i dont know if any one has tried a v6 pison engine from a 93-03 mustang or camaro

Nihilanthic

Grants offering a VG30 swap kit.

rxing87

that was a pick but this guy told me that the motor would be to wide

it looks nice i like it even though i was thinking chevy or ford v6 the nissan might be my pick thanks for the info keep it coming

noone knows if somone has a swap kit for newer style mustangs or camaros v6

Nihilanthic

Grant also has a picture OF a VG30 inside a damn FC, on his website.

Ive also seen ford modular (read: GIGANTIC, SIZE OF A BIG BLOCK) dohc v8s in a FC. Its got a huge engine bay.

As far as a smaller pushrod v6, you could put in a GM 3800 and supercharge or turbocharge it if you want, but N/A building would be a complete waste of time when you could go with a LS1, LT1, or even a SBC or a ford 302... and AFAIK it basically has no aftermarket for N/A builds. Most Ive ever seen from one was 300 flywheel hp. The heads just suck donkey dick for NA, but the engine as a whole is fine for the "not efficient but strong, so blow real hard on it" paradigm of tuning.

Ok, go do a "Search" about "handling" with a "v8" and "Swap". Or just ask Kukri who has a iron blocked 350 in a 2nd gen RX7 and out autocrossed a STi and a C5 Z06. This has been covered for years.... basically non stop!

IT WONT MESS IT UP! OK? Besides, a caprice doesnt handle because... its not tuned to handle. If you took the motor *OUT* of it it still wouldnt handle. It doenst have the tires for it, or the suspension tuning for it... especially given its weight.

The other facor is that a RX7, by design, wont be messed up weight wise by a engine swap, because it will mostly be behind the front wheels. But, regardless, you can still tune a car to handle even IF it was nose heavy with stiffer front springs.

And just as a FYI, Camaros and Mustangs have been serious road racing cars since before Mazda sold a RX7 in the states, and still are. Their handling is a result of the suspension tuning detroit feels americans want - sedate, comfortable, and understeerey for safety reasons, as well as a car that understeer tends to transfer weight to the rear tires and gets a better launch that way. However thats easily ameliorated with their rather vast aftermarket for suspension and brake products thats been out since forever.

Well, I'll put it this way. A FB has struts up front, a 4 link solid axle in the rear, and a watts linkage. Thats more or less just a baby bro of a mustang (even down to the steering box vs rack :P) that has a rotary in it. Ditch the watts link and get a PHB... and you got something similar to a camaro. Same geometry, just smaller scale... and it has a roatary.

Do FBs handle? Yes. Can they be made to handle even more? Yeah. No different for other strut (or double a-arm) front suspension, LA rear suspension cars.

tims

rxing87

I am currently installing a VG30DE Nissan V6 in an FC. this is the motor that is in the 90-96 300zx and a few infiniti cars. I didn't use any kits. I made a couple motor mounts that bolted to the OEM mazda location and built my own trans crossmember out of a straight piece of square tube bolted to the mazda lower rails. Motor and trans were set and mounts made in one weekend. This is a simple fabrication job. If you can weld a little it will go easy. Everything fits no cutting just a couple dimples with the ball peen hammer. Only real change is to lower the swaybar about 1". Engine in stock form makes 240HP. I am hoping to get 240HP to the wheels using a new ECU and a better intake and exhaust. I know the V8's are more powerful but power was not my only issue. These engine are nearly free compared to an LS1. If you use the VG30E it would be even easier as the heads are smaller the DE is DOHC and the E is SOHC. Engine and trans are heavier than the N/A RX7 but similair in weight to the full loaded TII. I don't have any pic's but maybe next weekend I'll try to post some. The ford and GM V6's would also work. I thought about the 3800 supercharged buick/pontiac engine but the JDM Nissan engines are alot cheaper from the used import engine guys. The later all aluminum engine may have been a better choice, but hindsight is all ways 20/20. A tape measure and some scrape metal was all it took.

Nihilanthic

Aluminm schuminum! Its a V6 and most likely totally behind the strut towers - who cares?

How much boost can that motor take stock? Is there an N/A aftermarket for it if you want to turn up the rev limiter?

Also, you might want to consider megasquirt or another standalone vs just chipping the ECM - unless, of course, the stock ECM is acutally able to be tuned well enough.

That said, 240 hp in a RX7 will haul ***, and 240 WHP will *REALLY* haul ***. Keep us posted!

tims

stock ECU is not part of the plan. I have used the Haltech E6K on several 13B engines so I am using it on the Nissan. 240 to the wheels seems very easy. There are lots of parts in the aftermarket, but 240HP will work perfect for my setup. As far as the aluminum vs. cast iron, weight is always bad and less is always better. I was worried about the engine not being RWD in its original installation, so I stayed with the RWD setup. I since seen a bunch of sand rail guys using the Maxima engine and this would bolt to the 300zx trans, and it would be a 100 pounds lighter. when it up and running I'll give an update on how it really works.

Nihilanthic

Well no **** less weight is better, but its just not that signifigant.. unless the VG30 is just *THAT* damn beefy. The car is light weight and the DISTRIBUTION wont be adversely effected.

Plus, the added strength of iron means it will hold up under boost down the road if you wanna do that

Im not disagreeing with you here or saying youre wrong, I am saying its not as big of a deal as many people make it out to be.

Chigliakus

You have to remember the old Nissan engines were sand cast and therefor extrememly heavy (and strong). I read on an auto recycler's website that the cast iron VG30 has a shipping weight around 500lbs, that's without tranny.

Nihilanthic

Zipppa de do da?

ITS BEHIND THE STRUT TOWERS! Its not going to **** up the handling of the car. People getting wider wheels (which effectively make the arm length of the suspension longer, thus lowering the effective spring rates) that are heavier, tires that are such a low profile they have basically no more widewall than I have foreskin and drilled rotors are doing MUCH more to **** up their car than putting in a 'heavy' 500 lbs engine into a FC, BEHIND THE FRONT WHEELS, ever will.

tims

that is all well and good(and true), but I was just stating the maxima engine is cheaper(than the 300zx) and lighter. Both are pluses in my book. If I did this swap again or if I need a replacement engine at some point that is what I'll do. As far as turbos are concerned I don't plan on that either. For my setup I was looking for something with 200+HP, so this fits well, the maxima would just have been a couple hundred bucks cheaper and a couple hundred pounds lighter

Chigliakus

Well I wasn't exactly saying it'd ruin the handling of the car, but all things being equal the heavier car will leave the track first in a turn.
Wider wheels and tires are a trade-off. To a point you can widen and change the offset to keep the wheel centerline in the same place, although you'll still increase unsprung weight. Bigger brakes can increase unsprung weight as well, however if you've ever managed to boil the fluid in your brake calipers on a road course you can appreciate that trade-off. Unless you're going forced induction I still say the cast iron VG30 isn't an ideal choice, especially if it's more expensive than the aluminum version.

Chigliakus

I should say, tims I'm not trying to crap on your swap. I have respect for anyone willing to attempt an engine swap of any kind. I'm sure your car will be fun as hell.

tims

I don't take it as a crap job. I went with what was a sure thing. engine and trans from a rear wheel drive donor car. I was not sure the other engines and trans combos would work together, so I didn't want to take any chances. If I had the time I would have come up with the answers, but I wanted it finished. overall I think the package is only going to be slightly heavier than the original TII engine and trans. I'll share my experiences once it is running.

rxing87

no parts avilable for that motor either all i ran into were turbos no intake manifols sounds good if you have acess to parts

tims

I don't think there is anything to be gained by a new intake, but these are available. Sand rail guys even have a carb conversion. Exhaust headers are available, but the OEM manifold is a tubular header anyway. It will fit after removing the nice heat shield and couple ball peen hammer blows to the firewall. There are trick cams, light/high compression pistons, trick valves, valve springs, rods, oil pumps, and cranks, but I would be very happy to get a solid dependable 200hp at the rear wheels without having to make to many expensive modifications.