Bodyshield

looking into swapping the 13b with a ka24de (future T), any plus's and minus's that you can think of. yes i know the ka isnt as "torquey" as the 13b but the roto is almost more high maintainance and the engine i have has 136k miles on it. im going to be using the cars for drifting so i want something that i can throw turns and needed power at and can handle it. i know the ka can handle cause the s13 and s14's do. thanks for the recommendations or help, i dont mind criticism

Pat McGroin

NA for NA theyre about the same. I am sure Turbo, they should be at least similar, but with KA24 you can make some good power on a good tune, and they can last a while.

Not to mention Ka24's are iron cast, and they are a dime a dozen and cheap.

I tried convincing my brother to go turbo Ka24de but he is stupid and purchased a ca18det for his 240sx.

But to tell you the truth, more power doesn't help you drift better. I would pick up best motoring's drift bible, it's not my thing but it has some cool tips so you don't go wasting money on engine mods.

Bodyshield

oh yeh i know i have that, i have pretty much everything that involves or relates to drifting. i know more power doesnt make u drift better, i learned that early. and i'd go w/ the ka rather than the sr due to low end torque

blkwidw96

Not to knock what you are trying to do because it would interesting to see when finished, but for all the fab work that would go into it you could get a lot better starting platform than the ka. The truth is you do need a lot of power to go drifting on most tracks. If you are just messing around in small industrial parks and you don't care then go with the ka but otherwise I would pick a better base engine. There is a reason there are only two drivers running kat's in formula d and I know tony is on his 4th motor and he is still underpowered compared to most of the other pro guys.

Bodyshield

i dont think necessarily its always about power, drifting is mostly about your approach to the turn, way you control your weight transfer, and control during the turn (and which technique you use to engage the drift). the fab work actually to mount a ka really isnt going to be that hard, we've already done the measurements and all that, and really isnt that different, except the ka will put alittle bit more weight in front of the front axle

The AntiRice

man, why are you gonna do this? please just put a turbo II motor in it, and be done, ka24de is just dumb

-RedFC from TRS

capn

if your gonna go with a turbo nissan go with an SR, or just do an LS1

jickel180

WTF

Bodyshield

SR has no torque, and the LS1 everyone has done it, and its just so, blah, im not crazy about the LS1 at all.......also capn this isnt a 240 its an FC

sillbeer

I second that.

-Destin

jickel180

I don't know why everyone talks about how much torque the KA has...it doesn't have it. I have a KA 240 as well, and it's a pig. It makes like what? 160 ft/lbs at the flywheel? My SR when it was stock turboed with boltons made 250rwt(@4600 rpms) and 237rwhp. Same peak rpms that the KA makes it's 160ft/lbs or so at the flywheel. I know you plan on turboing your KA, doing that would make some desired torque..but right off the bat this is going to be a weak N/A motor that will be much slower and make much less torque than an SR.

Also, the KA and LS1 shouldn't be in the same decision category in terms of torque. A lot of you guys think the KA makes some serious tree stump pulling torque or something, when it only makes like 4 ft/lbs more than an s2000

capn

i just personally think its going to be a waste, the SR is a much more potent engine, but if you want torque V8 is where its at.


and i said turbo nissan as in a turbo nissan engine not the car

MasamuneX

Do you really think these guys are going to encourage you to do it? www.ka-t.org will give you more than enough reasons to "like" the motor. If the rotary were where the piston engine is now then the piston would be considered "awkward." If you really like the FC chassis and want to be unorthodox then do the swap and walk all over the bias.

Pat McGroin

Wow, someone comparing a turboed motor to an NA one???

How about comparing a turboed KA to an sr20, same turbo and same psi????

Displacement always wins.

Ka24 = dime a dozen, cheap parts.

Try getting an sr20 for as cheap as a ka24de, especially after this sr20 bandwagon-nuthugging drift craze. I'd rather do ca18 before an sr20 anyday, very close in numbers and 1500 dollars cheaper. The sr20 was also a cost effective replacement of the ca18.

jickel180

The SR makes more power mod for mod compared to a KA and a CA(thanks to revs and more efficient head flow). Yeah, I'm comparing a turbo motor to a non turbo motor. He chose to decide an NA motor over a factory turboed motor.You think he's talking about a non turbo SR he's looking to swap?

The guy says the SR has no torque, that's his fault for deciding to go with an n/a KA (that makes poop loads less tq than a stock SR) he'll be forced to run for a while (until it's eventually turboed). Now, when turboed and built finally, the KA will make more tq(Read: tq, not hp)than an equally modded SR. That's great for him, i'm sure the boats he's looking to tow, or the lumber he plans to haul will thank him for it.

I bought my SR shortblock for 100.00 dollars and built it up from there...My build was pretty cheap. SR parts are so widley available now, that parts are equal in price to a KA.

Pat McGroin

Torque helps a bit, and it does make a ride a lot more fun.

Also, from the research I have done, most things i have read seemed to have made the CA a more innovative engine with 4 to 8 runner intake manifold plenums, less noisy valvetrain. Well this is a while ago that I researched the differences between CA's and SR's, of course each have their differences but overall CA's made close to the same power, and they are a grand less, when comparing complete swaps.

OF course the SR's did have their advantages as well, it just depends on the person I guess, both motors handle 300whp easily.

Either way I'd do Ka24det anyday. Nothing beats 200 dollar longblocks at the local junkyard.

wakeboarder2186

ok guys, heres the deal on the swap that he is going to do, ive researched every angle of it.....

1. mounting - both engine bays have the same distance from the firewall to the mounting points and the mounting points to the front of the bay, so the motor will sit in its origonal position and motor balance will not the compromised.

2. ka torque vs. sr - cannot compare the 2 numbers, one is na and one is turboed. he is talking about a fully built ka motor. im guessing none of you guys have even looked at a stock ka dyno and seen the torque curve that it has. at about 1800 rpm it goes straight up, which is insane and unheard of. the sr when boosted highly produces numbers in the low 500's for hp and matching torque numbers only come in the high 300's. while the ka on the other hand will produce close to 600 torque at the same ammount of hp.

3. torque and drifting - look at just the begining of this season for formula D. who has won so far? let see....... sam hubinette (sp?) driving a v10 viper, does that have an assload of torque or not?.....next was rhys millen driving a supercharged v8, i would say that has torque also.....round 3 wen to ken gushi also driving a supercharged v8 another torque monster, and round 4 in sonoma wen to calvin wan the first import to win but also another torquey motor the vg35. i dont see any sr motors even keeping up with the motors that have high torque numbers. torque and drifting go hand and hand.

4. reasons for not putting in a rotary - those are simple, while i love the rotary engine, its just not the best for drifting, when run hard they do tend to blow under stress and heat, which is drifting, lots of stress on the car and engine. heat is not the rotary's friend.

blkwidw96

The cars you mentioned are also the most exspensive and highest hp cars in formula D. Calvin Wan has around 80K in his motor, and Gushi already blew one block because he had so much power and is on his second. I may be cracked out but this doesn't sound like the kind of power a ka-t is going to make for under 10k. I may be mistaken but I think Ivan has gone through quite a few blocks as well and his car is not even driven daily let alone drifted so doubt it would hold long against the abuse of drifting. Ka's just don't rev well, that is why you see so many 240's with rods out the side of the block. A ka at 15psi is only pushing around 280hp/300ftlbs and the torque hits aroung 4500 and then drops drastically after 5500. You have to have atleast everything except rods before you can run that kind of power for any length of time.

Bodyshield

we are talking fully built motors, forged everything, lots of less rotating mass inside the motor. therefore the rev problems are somewhat fixed. yes they are the most expensive, but also they are also torquey cars, not considering price right now, just talkiing about torque in general. the sr isnt even keeping up with them, the only person coming close is dijiro (sp?) because of his skill....not sure what conrad is running, but im pretty sure its not an sr same with tanner foust. the sr just isnt keeping up in formula D, now when we come to D1 thats a different story, japanese driving style is much diff than the american driving style. and yes a fully built ka for under 10k is easily attainable. and there are many many tricks that can be done in the milling and machining of the block and head that can be done to gain hp from things you might not ever imagine.

TheSparo

i must say, you impressed me with your stupidity in your post. Why would you go CA? you do realize those motors are MUCH older than SR motors, in turn you will almost %100 of the time need to rebuild it, then still have quite a bit less tq and hp... and comparing the KA-T and SR @ same psi? wtf is that? of course a high compression motor will make more power at the same psi, hence higher compression. SR was built for boosting, KA was not, so SR has lower compression to allow for higher boost... you think you'd know that..

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

I love all the talk of "torque" and small 4 cylinders in the same paragraph.

aznpoopy

errr the ka24de makes more torque then the 13B. comparatively turbocharged the ka24 will make more torque then a 13BT as well. wtf are you talking about?

are you on crack? stop regurgitating misinformation you read on forums.

you embarass yourself by comparing a n/a ka24de to a sr20det. in fact you embarass 240sx owners everywhere. at least be somewhat intelligent and compare a sr20det to a turbocharged ka24de.

finally, an intelligent post. i really dont consider 155 ft/lbs of torque to be "torquey".

now, take a deep breathe and realize what a stupid idea it is to swap in a nissan engine in favor of a 13B / 13BT. it's been done before, and no; it's not a simple swap. and you're not going to be making a tremendously different amount of torque or hp.

if you're worried about rotary reliability, why don't you take your 13B to kevin and get it rebuilt. done and done. it'll be about 5x cheaper then doing all this custom **** to put a old nissan motor in your car. if you're worried about other issues besides that, learn your ******* car. get a FSM and get to work. it's not like ka and sr motors never blow up. they do.

you want to go ka or sr, get a 240sx.

SurroundedBySe7ens

Swapping a KA engine into you car would be a waste - I wouldn't recommend it.
If you want to work with the KA engine then you should probably just get an S13 just like aznpoopy mentioned. I suggest looking into your other motor options...

An owner of an SR20det himself,
Adam

240sx

go CA, or sr. ka-t is a good motor though

san diego fd3s

Why don't you just buy a ******* 240? That would be the easiest thing to do.