kevinhays

i've been weighing the benefits of having an rx7 with a piston engine, but i don't know much about engine swapping. obviously, swapping to piston has got to be much more involved than say just swapping with a new tii, but after searching and searching on all the forums, it is difficult to say just how big of an effort this would be as well as a rough estimate of the cost. i only ask this now because i came across this engine: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/981461065.html and was wondering just what it would take to be dropped into a 2nd gen (ie, what more parts needed, how much custom fab, any kits to help mount, and so on).

any advice from people with experience with these engines would be greatly appreciated..

thanks

oh and anybody who is going to come in and start flaming about putting pistons in a rotary car, don't, go show your immaturity somewhere else. im just asking for a little advice.

REVERE

It will cost a lot if you do not have the skills or knowledge to perform the swap yourself. Why have you decided to go for a 1jz when there are clearly better piston options available?

Personal opinion- I think your scales are broken.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

its a lot of work with a kit. I have a buddy that did the chevy small block swap with a kit and it still was a bit of time and a lot of cash, there are too many times you end up doing the "well I need a new ___" then end up buying something over the top. thats how my buddy ended up with all kinds of crazy crap thats not needed. If you wanna do this the best of luck.
link for help http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/ there is also a section in the performance section of the forum that is just for engine swaps, try there for more help.

Omixeo

iTrader: (1)

http://www.2jzswap.com/enter

They sell kits for 1j/2j into FC, FD, S13, S14 and other crap too.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

https://www.rx7club.com/forumdisplay...ysprune=&f=118

have at it.

Icemark

Moved to the appropriate section of the board

kevinhays

it isn't clear to me. what is your definition of better? to me it appears as though this engine is relatively inexpensive compared to the other engines, capable of fairly high hp, im not trying to go 400 hp or anything, and would be better on gas milage then like a v8.

if anyone has information that supports this or contradicts it, i would love to here it. i just wanna go piston.

thanks i just looked these guys up. does anybody have experience with them? and looking at this, it appears as though it would not be much more costly at that point to buy a 3rd gen roller and put it in there.. would the cramped engine bay make it that much more of a job?

jakkeduprx7

Yeah i say the same also hit them up

OC_

I don't think any in-line motor is a good candidate to swap into an rx-7. The engines are just so long and tall, and either have to be moved way forward or way back. Moving the engine back takes a lot of cutting and welding; and moving it forward is going to give you a crappy weight balance which results in poor handling. Also, I'm sure the engine is going interfere with the location of the rack and pinon, so it will have to be raised up over it. Raising the CG makes the handling even worse!

ElysianD

Or just relocate rack slightly and use bump steer spacers to re-align the tie-rods.

Low-deck motors like the RB and CA are great for clearance, or also small-block BMW sixes and fours.

ehime

iTrader: (18)

I'm doing this swap too, and also am in Washington. If you have any questions gimme a call up and maybe we can help each other out. Fone is 206.420.9564, names JD.

And its not as expensive as you think, 1JZ-GTE is 1-2k, R154 Trans is 4-800, you need new motor
mounts, that 2jz does which will run you a couple hundred also, then a shortened drive shaft and
a rewired Charge and Engine Harness which you can do yourself or have made for 600~ dollars.
Altogether/Turnkey your looking at about 5-8k depending. Not so bad IMHO for a stock no mods
320 (USD Spec) horse. Plus you get the benefits of reliability and better fuel economy, and a nice
torque curve to boot.

Actually the engine (with the mounts we use) sit fairly far back with no firewall modification, and
still leaves a good 4-6in space from our front rad mount, which also IMHO should be cut and rel-ed
in favor of going V-Mount. Weight distro in the front is heavier (because of the engine) but stiffer
spring ratio in front should solve any nose diving problems and rides close(r) to a stock feel.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

as for the weight issue, if you are thinking of swapping out the 13b then i dont believe weight is too big of a concern for you anyways (since the 13b is gonna be lighter than almost anything that would be worth swapping as it is). and everyone is right, the balance will be effed up too, but again, i dont think your worried about that (or at least i wouldnt be) the coolness factor would more than make up for it. now my main question is: why not put a 2j in? i kno that people will argue for days about which is better.....1j, 2j, 1.5j (2j w/1j heads) but lets face it, in the end the rule for piston motors is MORE DISPLACEMENT=MORE POWER. there is a reason toyota didnt continue to use the 1jz. plus, the 1j suffers from a major lack of tq. IMO, the 3 main reasons to plant a piston motor into a rx is 1) reliability, 2) ease of repair (no whole rebuilds for 1 blown seal, 3)TORQUE. this third aspect is something that the 1jz just doesnt deliver on compared to a 2j. sure, the 2jz wont rev as high cuz its a stroker, but its has massive tq for that very reason. again, IMO, if your gonna go through the trouble (and yes, it will be troublesome and costly) you might as well go all the way and do a 2jz swap. again, my .02

ehime

iTrader: (18)

Because they're cheap, and have a good sized overhead you can work with.
2k (high end-ish) for a 1JZ or 5k (again high end) for a 2JZ? I'd rather do a
1JZ first, have mounts d-train, wiring, and clutch there, and when and or if it
blows, move up that ladder a little. I think what a lot of us 1JZ guys look at
is power potential vs price, a 1JZ is cheap, but can make relatively enormous
power figures. So yeah, I could do a 1200hp 2JZ, and pay out my nose but
never be able to drive it cuz its close to unstreetable, or, do a 1JZ, keep it at
6-700hp, and only have to worry about rain and snow.

Power isn't the only thing that I (personally) am looking at, I'm looking at the
price of my next full rebuild, future(ability?) proofing it, and cost effectiveness.

Plus if you ever get that wild hair up your *** that you want a ground bound
jet propelled rocket on four wheels, its a smaller step to swap in a 2 after
you've had a 1 inside. Breaks things up all nice and piecemeilish or whatever.

And I think that the torque numbers you're getting might be a bit muddled, sure
its not the end all for a engine, but its a vast improvement, and again, it can be
upgraded for a lot cheaper than that 2jzgte your pushing. I mean the VVTI engines
are at 280hp/280tq. That's quite a bit for a stock engine regardless.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

i dunno, my cousin (who lives like 10 minutes away so he is my closest relative in proximity) is a big supra head so most of his friends (and therefore a good portion of my friends since we hang out together) are also supra guys. maybe im just spoiled by the fact that between the supra guys i kno (my cousin included) there are a few blown motors (5m's, 7m's, and even 2j's included) and enough parts to rebuild them all plus some laying around.

one of my friends has an 89 supra (MA70)which he swapped a 1j into (of course 1j and 2j swaps are VERY popular among MA70 guys just like RE and 20B swaps are for us) and he says that not saving up for the 2j is the worst mistake he made with that car.. beats the 7M that was in it tho.


believe me, i completely understand this as well. the only thing im saying is that if it was me (which i realize its not) and i had the ablilty, i would rather go with a 2JZ and make it a long term project then go through with a 1j and save a few dollars and time only to wish i had done a 2J

not thats theres anything wrong with the 1j, its a solid motor and has lots of potential. besides the obvious hassle of actuall getting into the fc, it beats the **** outta other piston swaps. again, everything written is IMHO.

ehime

iTrader: (18)

Well... If he has so many parts, would he mind getting rid of some 2JZ stuff?
If its cost effective in my projective budget I would gladly go 1.5 or 2J instead.
I have a few friends that are hardcore into 3rd Gen Supras also and that's when
I originally heard about this swap, and figured that the cars are very similar except
weight wise (our cars being noticeably lighter). Your right, I would much rather go
2JZ from the start, but like I said, it ads quite a few steps, and a big pile of dough.

Maybe Touch, if you get a chance see if he has a "spare" block for sale, with or
without a head. Either way it would be useful in future plans.

Sorry to thread jack Kevin, I guess Touch and I are getting carried away, but hopefully
you've gleaned some good info from this while we're bantering back and forth about
pros, cons, and cost evaluations. Since this swap still isn't very common, getting info
is still pretty hard to do.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

definately, where are you located tho, cuz the guy hat i kno for sure has 2j parts (not my cousin, altho if you wan 7m stuff, hes your man!) would probably not wanna ship it to j-pan if your really in osaka. for that matter, he might not wanna ship it period, if hes looking to sell. i kno he wanted to do a 2j into a mkII supra, but he has been planning that for a while and has actually gotten more into upgrading his mkIII in the last year or so. anyway, ill see what he has and if hes selling (i believe he has a completely block with the head, but no manifolds, etc but i not sure).


yea, sorry to th OP, but hopefully this info helps.

ehime

iTrader: (18)

Located in Seattle, WA. Which is just over 2800 Miles from you, btw.
Talk to him and lemme know what he's looking for it, I can have it
shipped to a biz also to save him some money if it helps. Just tell me.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

ok, i will, but ill pm you so we dont further clog up this guy's thread

on that note, to answer the OP:

it all really depends on what you want in the car. if you want to keep the car light and balnced (i.e. autox or road racing) then stick with a 13b or 13bt. if your dragging or just want a unique street ride, then the 1jz is an awesome engine (altho i obviously believe that the 2jz is better). either way you go, any motor swap is gonna be a pain and pretty costly, especially if you cannot do fab work your self. a straight 6 is gonna be exceptionally difficult tho because of eaons already mentioned (the LONG and TALL dimensions of the engine). most likely, whether its a 1J, 2J, RB26, bmw motor, whatever, you will probably need to cut the hood, cut the tranny tunnel, or do something with the steering rack, or all of these things. i have never done any non-rotary swaps but obviously it will be more involved because your looking at custom (or expensive pre-fabbed) mounts, diff tranny, driveshaft, rear end, etc. HOWEVER, despite all that, if you dont mind doing a Long-term expensive project (unless you have a job that pays you a on of money for working 15 hrs /week) then i say go for it. there are quite a few jz-swapped fd's running around (albeit not as many as lsx powered ones) but not too many jz-powered fc's.

i found these two threads, maybe you can contact one of them and get a better idea of the project, the supraforums one in particular is really informative:

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-rx-7-1986-1992-vehicles-108/fs-1989-1jz-gte-rx7-freshly-painted-1-week-ago-809205/
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428042

lastly, on the tech2 site, i cant find where they sell jz swap kits for fc, only fd, can someone post the direct link??

ehime

iTrader: (18)

Good second thread from the Supra Forum, very informative. I had no idea
we (see I ) could use a vette c4 diff/irs. Good one Touch. BTW I think OP
lost interest in this thread. No posts in a month-ish? Claiming OP status
unless rebuked .

So Anyway as I spec'd above, evidently from my digs on this swap the hardest
part of using a JZ series engine in our cars is the rewire of the harness, evidently
(from talking on JZSwap) the only things needing rewiring are the engine and
charge. I'm still snooping for diagrams and might need to bite the bullet and
have JZSwap rewire mine, and from that make a wiring diagram and post to
get it out to the community so this swap is more on the dims of "Plug N' Play".

Another thing that I really want to do is get mounts (engine as far back and low
as possible of course, which might take a few tries and multiple mounts) and take
full dims or CAD out these and post. Maybe we can get a small community of
Supra7's / Soarer7's out there. I mean you take the DIY and guess work (see
majority) out of it and it will become a more common swap.

Up for "Community Starters" lol

vh_supra26

iTrader: (4)

i wanted to do this swap with the roller that i had. can you please let me know how much you ended up spending.

TurboII RudeBoy

look alot of you are making this harder than it seems. first of all toyota produced the 1jz 2 years earlier than the 2j and produced it until the demise of the jz series. both of their production runs ended at the same time.second of all the charging signal for the 1j alternator is on the 1j engine harness. all you have to do is attach the rx7's 12v battery cable to the 1 jz alternator. then connect the 12 volt memory wire from the supra/ soarer harness it's black and yellow to constant 12v, then connect the black and red to ign 12 volts. after you have accomplished this you take your rx7 alt light signal and splice it with the toyota atl sig nal so your idiot lights work properly so they don't come on because they think the alt is dead.) your done! now make mounts , custom d/s and use a supra tranny r154 not a soarer 154 because the soarer puts your shifter too far back .the supra ends up 3 inches too short but you can extend it properly. you can build your mounts on the fc3s subframe. so the supra factory engine mounts sit down and your done, any one with questions can pm me i've been running my swap for 4 years and finally this christmas went to 2j block on my 1j head. only reason i did that is because my head was ported and polished with cams , springs and valves.. i made almost 150 more hp at lower rpms as well as tourque. i do miss the rev of the 1j though.

TurboII RudeBoy

i wired up the red car in the above link , that is for sale.It's my buddy Alains car, for a small fee you could send me your harness and i would take care of everything to make it plug and play pm me.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

i guess i should have been more clear....i meant that there is a reason that toyota stopped using the 1jz in their flagship performace vehicle (the supra).

otherwise tho, i had no idea that the wiring was that easy. actually, as far as the swap difficulty is concerned, i never even considered the wiring becuase i just figured anyone doind this swap would run a standalone anyways (i kno i sure as hell would). the main difficulty that i was concerned with was fitting the motor and tranny without much modding to the tranny tunnel, hood, or steering rack, but still have it far enough back to keep some semblance of balance, yet at the same time leaving enough ventalation for the last cylinder or two. and also getting it low. since you have performed this swap (unlike me or ehime) maybe you could give more specifics on the more difficult aspects??

also, ehime, i kno i said id pm you but since im posting here anyways, ill just tell you now; the guy i kno does have a complete block with the head and other stuff, but doesnt wanna sell yet, hes still looking to do his project. and i completely agree with the other stuff you said, if we could get more info and standard procedure on this swap it would benefit the community and result in more jz powered fc's (which id rather see that 302 and lsx powered ones)

ehime

iTrader: (18)

I haven't finished yet, but my projected was under 9k with everything said and
done. This was with outsourcing work as well so keep that in mind (buying
mounts, paying for custom harness rewiring, purchase of engine and extremities),
keep in mind this was with a 1JZ swap, NOT a 2JZ, with a 2j I'd add around 2k-3k
to the entire ordeal. Relatively cheap IMHO.

The wiring on this really is straight forward, If I remember right this was one of the
only changes you had to make, cept the engine control wires to/from the ECU. I'm
still trying to get a complete wiring diagram though, but no one seems to want to
part with one, if they have one in the first place. Would definitely like to make a
n00b guide for this engine swap. I am fairly sure that there are wiring diffs between
the FC and FD chassis though, but I know both are straight forward.

BTW this is also valid on RHD cars with RHD harness' (mine), I guess the T2 JDM
harness is supposed to be a near mirror of the S5 NA or something to that effect.

TurboII RudeBoy, any chance you wanna sit down with me sometime and write up
a "Definitive, this is how you swap this damned thing" thread or faq? My cars open
right now, and still need to source a few things, but I can confirm/deny hands on
just like you.

No modification needed, believe it or not, the only modding you do is on your
shifter if I remember right. It sits to far back or forward or something? Bad
probably knows which? Other than that its gold!

Amen! Hopefully since there's a few who've done it, and a few who are doing it, and a
few who are "considering" it (see lol), we can get something together to help out everyone.
+1 for the community.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

im not a die-hard rotary purists or anything, but i personally have never seriously considered a piston swap before....but this is getting me thinking!