4G63FD

I know you were joking man, I was too. And dont curse your car and call it a piece of junk, I've learned from experience that thats when the bitch will never work. My fcukin piece of $h!t is giving me a ton of problems, and I broke the damn windshield last week, $400 down the drain. My $h!t should also run 10's whenever its done (that'll be Neveruary 32nd, lol). I hardly have time to work on it. Hey gimmie an email and we can discuss each others progress. Good luck.

rarson

Sure, 8 years ago, 500 whp on pump was impossible. Things have changed a lot since then. Turbos have gotten better, there are more engine management solutions out, and the "road maps" have been much more thoroughly (and repeatedly) mapped out. There's no reason why he shouldn't be able to make an engine that puts out 700 whp on race gas and still be able to drive the thing daily.

Every so often I start to fell like we've seen the limits of this engine, and then someone goes and makes more power or runs faster.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

Hit the nail on the head.

4G63FD

Well said my brother, well said.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

How are you gonna drive that thing? Are you going to wait untin 7000 to get full boost and all peak Power. I'm talikng about daily driven car. Please dont talk to me about the shops that can build drag freaks with 1000hp and compare us with them. What is your point with that. I love your colt, i think it's awesome, but what happen to it. I heard you had the accident or something at 140 miles/hour. That chasis wasnt built for highway races and to be a daily driven car. Its kinda akward to put 4g63 insted of rotary.... Its not cool at all. I know its much easier to make safe power with 4g63, I had one and i know what is capable of doing. My point is , I dont know but i heard if you know what are doing with rotory it will serve you well. We all learned (most of us) with 4G63 and we dont wanna mess with something complicated as rotory (Unique engine). Its like if you are a programer and used to use Qbasic (simple lenguage) and going to use C++ or something more complicated. C++ can do much more but its not as easy to understand as Qbasic. TO me that is RICE. Maybe you could put sticker with MItshubishi and 4G63 on Beautifull body of RX7 FD.
Dont be afraid to learn about rotary, you all are level 2 autoperformance techs, be proud of it.

Here is the link for the cheaper turbo timer.
http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=1428

rarson

Dude, no offense, but what the hell are you talking about?

It's an engine swap, people do it all the time. Here's how it works:

FC: great chassis.
4g63: great engine.
Let's put them together: great car.

I assume every other engine swap out there is rice too then? Or if not, then what makes the rotary so special that it's different in this instance?

slo

iTrader: (1)

May I be the first to say WTF.

Now that thats been said, ColtBoostin, do you have a dyno graph showing the Colt for the 700 HP run. I'm just curios what it looks like.

Edit, I guess I wasn't the first to say WTF

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

4G63 great engine !!!

Maybe good but great no way.

2.0l is only 2.0l

2JZ for instance would be called great engine or even 3rotor etc. Why dont you put 2jz?
Nah , still rice...

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

FC is different story, FD is parked in my garage

rarson

Once again, I'm not following. You use displacement to determine how good an engine is? Who gives a **** what it is, it still can make TONS of power. That's what makes it great (well, that, and it's a very well-designed engine).

Regarding the 2JZ, well first of all, engine choice is up to the person doing it. And secondly, the 2JZ is a much heavier engine, especially when he can use the 4g63 to get the power he wants.

And I still don't understand how you consider engine swaps to be "rice." That word typically refers to mods that give the appearance of performance, but with no performance benefits. An engine swap certainly wouldn't fit that description.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

OK tell me what is the definition of the Rice? Could you compare the rx7 and dsm and say one is better than other. Why people dont put 2jz into the porshe or lambo...And make tons of power and be even faster...nope it wont happen.

Who would drive the lambo and live with the fact that he has toyota engine under the hood. I wouldn't, maybe you wouldnt care...

It's ok if I dont make sense to you, but that is how i feel.

rarson

You know, someone DID put a 4g63 into a Porsche. Eric Plebani. It was in a few magazines, too. And it was a LOT faster than it was in stock Carrera 3.2 trim.

One of the reasons Eric did the transplant was because he loved Porsches but hated the expense of working on them. So by transplanting a 4g63, he lowered his maintenance costs a lot and got a reliable, powerful engine too. So there ARE some real world examples and reasons for doing what you suggested. By the way, people swap V8's into Porsches all the time. Other than the 356 and Porsche's current models, I don't think I've seen a Porsche that didn't have a V8 swap (including the 928).

I already told you the definition of rice: appearance mods that try to give the appearance of performance when it's not really there. Stuff like adding a spoiler, badges, or stickers for car parts companies that you haven't even bought products from. Shoving a fart can onto the stock exhaust. Putting a park bench on your trunk. Etc.

As for comparing the RX-7 and the DSM, sure, I suppose I could do that, but what's your point? I really like both cars equally so it'd be hard for me to choose one that I would consider better than the other.

I think you're missing a big point here. If a car is getting an engine transplant, obviously the person doing the transplant has to decide which engine he wants to use (whether it's a drop-in rotary replacement or a 10-hp Changfa diesel engine). There are MANY reasons a person would choose a particular engine, the least of which being that it came in the car. A lot of the time, those reasons result in the person not choosing the rotary engine, because for them, a different choice makes more sense. What makes any 1 engine that much better than another engine? For me, I'd like an engine that is easy to make power with, relatively cheap, and has a decent aftermarket. There's a lot of engines that don't fit that criteria. But I don't go around telling people it's "rice" for them to be swapping it into their chassis.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

Let me tell you that one of the best and strongest 4G63's build ups would be 2.3l stroker. People usually go with the bigger turbo than 50trim with this block, to make more than 400whp. Do you know what is the life time average on these engines (blocks) . 20k-25k is the max 15k is average. Why would you call this reliable? This is the fact, go check yourself on DSM forums. It will cost you up to 2k to rebuilt. If this your daily driven car you would need to rebuild engine every 6months. Those are the facts. I dont see that as a good thing. I believe you like 4G63 because you had the most experience working on them and you view is not that broad when you look other engines...Please dont tell me its cheap doing performance on 4g63...its not and it will never be. There are parts for them all over the place that is true. Why Greedy, HKS, apexi dont make many or any performance parts for DSM and why they do just and only for cars like rx7, supra, skyline.. why not for dsm and 4G63 if its that good and popular...

rarson

Okay, first off, the 2.3L stroker is not more reliable than the 2.0 with it's factory crank. The reason is obvious, the side loading on the pistons in the 2.0 is much less. Secondly, your estimates, which I'm assuming are supposed to be mileage, are wrong. Perhaps you have been hanging out too much on the lesser DSM boards, Tooners for instance, where the members aren't capable of building an engine properly, but to think a 4g63 needs a rebuild every 25k miles is RIDICULOUS. I'm pushing about 350 whp, and have been for about the last 25k, and the motor has never been cracked open since it left the factory. The original head gasket is still on the car. No problems, and the car has about 75k miles on it.

I like the 4g63 because the engine design makes sense, and it has been shown time and time again to be one of the strongest, if not THE strongest, 4-cylinder engines ever made.

By the way, "Greedy," HKS, and Apexi all make parts for the DSM. But what does it matter who makes the parts, as long as they're available. I can get a set of rods for $300. A set of pistons for $400, maybe even less. HOW IS THAT EXPENSIVE?

It's obvious to me that you had no clue when you had your DSM and that because of this, you had a bad experience with it.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

WTF?

Maybe this was posted in the wrong thread? Yikes.

adictd2b00st

hiboost guess what, no one cares about your opinion.....cause thats all your posting, your OPINION. who cares if you like it or not, its not your car anyways.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

Pics and dyno graph can be found hetre.

http://shearerfabrications.com/dev/gallery/jriccio

It looks lazy since the dyno was done in 3rd. Watch the 10.5@149mph video-and you can see how responsive the turbo actually was.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Wow; if anyone wants a laugh (or a headache) just read hiboost's posts, and try to comprehend what exactly is going on in his mind to spit out that convoluted drivel.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

As for this 4g63 vs. Rotary arguement-I will pose the same question that I did before-which is STILL unanswered.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I think we passed the sentimental bullshit part of the thread 14 pages ago.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Again, I think you're placing blame in the wrong spot. It's not the engine that fails it's the human factor that fails to tune the engine or build it properly. I'll let you do your own homework on it.

Generally the posts you see on here of "I don't know why by brand new half bridge bla bla bla let go in the middle of passing *insert highend sportscar* here on *insert track name here*" Start off with "F this rotary peice of S... It just let go for no reason I dumped XXXX money into and had So and so tune it yada yada etc..."

By the end of the post they had the engine torn down and it wasn't built properly. Or they posted a log of their dataloggit/whatever data collection unit they use and theres a glaring issue that the owner ignored.

The fact is, the DSM upgrade paths are well beaten. Rotaries are still a mystery to many an owner.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

That’s fair, people incorrectly build $g's as well.

That being said-where is the shining example of the "properly built" 700whp daily driven reliable 13b? I am not saying your wrong, I am not saying it cant be done, I am just saying I need proof.

slo

iTrader: (1)

What kind of turbo?

Also what do you mean about the dyno run done in 3rd, I would understand if it was being reported against wheel speed instead of RPM, but its being shown as RPM. It looks like you have no boost untill 5k, and then a nice steady rise to readline?

Also, from your previous post, about a daily driven 500 whp stock port T2, while I'm sure its possible 500 WHP is really pushing the limit for all but the much latter T2 engines with the strong rear iron. Assuming someone was starting with an S5 factory reman, and built and tuned the engine properly, then sure its possible, using alcohol injection.. It would basicly be impossible on an s-4, the rear iron would crack.

Now I'm kind of reading this into your post, I think what your really asking is would it be possible to take a good cond JDM engine or used US engine and do this. Thats simple, it wouldn't last long no matter how it was built and tuned. And it would be way down on power Vs a freshly rebuilt engine.

Whats so hard about making a 700whp daily driven rx7 thats reliable? If your not driving it like a race car everywhere it will be reliable, how much power does it take to put around.

That being said, I wouldn't personally push a 13B past about 400 WHP, and even then it would be far more expensive than a built 4g463. Personally 13B's have been alot more reliable to me than DSM,s of which I have blown 3 (2 crank walk, 1 Timing belt 20K after changing it with Balance shaft elimination, using all new support parts, such as tensioner, pully's etc.)

For me the 13B-re I put into my FC has been a fun (and expensive) learning experience, but I recognize that there a far more effective (cost and performance) engines available, such as the LSX and in many ways the 4g463.

But arguably for the price/availability and apearance there isn't a better chassis.

coltboostin

iTrader: (1)

I beat on the car EVERY DAY. I races it EVERY WEEKEND. The only failure I had over last season was ripping the input shaft clean off the trans while trying to race a Busa from a dig on the highway. Again-I see no Rotaries making anywhere near this kind of power in anything resembling a daily driven street car.

At least you are fair in your observations-and I will comend you for that.

rarson

Whoa, your pics are hosted on Shearer's site? You must be a NABR member then, right?

As far as a decent rotary engine putting out gobs of power, you might want to search for some posts from LUPE. He was pushing 6-something out of a two-rotor that seemed like it was running really well. He also got the car down to like 2200 lbs WITH the interior still in it (it's an FD) and ran a 10 flat on the brakes (something he was missing, they would've kicked him out if he broke into the 9's). He recently tried selling the car on ebay... I don't know if he ever sold it. Awesome car though.

And certainly, there's probably a few other cars out there from guys like Crispeed that make gobs of power all day. But the clear, obvious, and undisputable point is that it's VERY much easier for the average guy to make that kind of power with a 4g63 than it is with a 13b. I basically bow down to anyone that can tune a 600-hp 2-rotor and make it last. It's a really tough feat. Too tough for me to waste my time and money with it.