Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Alrighty, this is a weird one -- so I figure I'd ask the old school experts for some input.

The other day, I drop off my friend at their place. I park the '2, pull the e-brake and notice it stalls. "Odd," I figured and we unpack the car and go inside. About 20 min. later I take off and it won't start -- it just cranks n' cranks. I go through all the normal stuff like fuses, listening for the fuel pump, checking for burnt wires, etc. Everything looks OK at first glance.

Now here's the weird part. After about 15 min. I finally trace it down to the ignition switch (or so I think). Here's the symptoms: when I turn the ignition to start, I can hear it start up & run but as soon as I let the key go to neutral/ON it dies. I eventually figure out that if I start it and slowly release the key and listen for the starter to disengage it will keep running. The tricky part with this is you have to drive the car while holding the key turned slightly to the right, heh. It was definitely entertaining trying to shift/steer & hold the key at the same time on the drive home.

After I figured that out I was convinced it was the ignition switch, but today I tested out 3 other ignition switches I have and they all exhibit the same symptoms, so that pretty much rules out the ignition switch. I can't see 3 ignition switches in a row being bad. So far I've removed the gauge cluster, glove box and fuel pump cover checking for burnt wiring, etc. but haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary.

..so, has anyone experienced anything like this before? Is it painless wiring kit time? I figured I could wire a remote switch up to the fuel pump but I'd much rather figure out what caused this to happen in the first place. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Mike

Ita15

In the olden days on American cars with points the ignition supplied 12 volts to the ignition during startup but when you released the key power was sent from the ignition switch to a dropping resistor which cut the voltage to like 8 volts so the points would not wear as fast. I have no idea if the 2 uses such a resistor but the symptoms are classic of that problem.

dick

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, possible but I'll have to check some wiring diagrams. I'm not sure if the '2 uses one either. Mine has been upgraded to a later ignition system so the points are long gone.

The main problem is the fuel pump circuit cuts out when the key is fully released, causing the engine to die.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

the entire ignition (power to ignition coils/fuel pump) is cutting out when the key is on "start." 2 things you can do as a quick fix:

use a push button switch
OR
run new lead wires (+) to both coils controlled by a toggled switch/relay.

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I may do that as I'm quickly running out of things to check. I'm going to rewire the ignition and if that doesn't fix it I'm out of ideas. I will probably rig up a switch after that.

Mike

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

if you can find a RWD GLC, the entire ignition lock/cylinder is identical to an old school. its a direct fit. be sure to grab one of the door locks too to make it easier for the locksmith to make a key.

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

That's the thing though, it's not really the ignition lock/cylinder/switch that's the problem. My pal brought over 2 more ignition switches and they both did the same thing so I'm fairly certain the problem isn't there. I've tried 5 in total now.

I've started re-doing all the ignition/coil wiring, but so far it is still behaving the same way. I did notice that the leading coil power seems to be combined with the fuel pump power which I'm not sure is normal or not, so I may try finding an alternate 12v source for the fuel pump.

Mike

VincenzoL

iTrader: (1)

Check all your ground wires. This has happened to me on a REPU and my RX2.

On the REPU I thought it was the ignition too and went through the exact same situation you described, changed ignition switches and all since it was loosing voltage once the key was turned to the "start" position. A better ground on the engine block solved the problem as well as cleaning all the contacts in the ign system and fuse box.

On my RX2 I had a similar problem, but I never even got as far as breaking out the test light. I just made a new ground to the battery and that solved it. Old cars man... better carry some tools with you at all times!

ramirez1

On this topic, let me ask a question.

Couldnt you just use the "PainLess" wiring kit???

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

yes but this project is not as "painless" as the kit says

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Do you still have points? I know the REPU had two sets of ignition wires; one was yellow/black and the other was black/yellow. One was on in the ON position while the other was on in the START position. The reason was to allow full 12V into the coils and points during cranking, but less voltage in the ON position (fed through ballast resistors) to keep from burning up the points.

When I upgraded my ignition to an '81-'85 dizzy, It would spark in the ON position but not in the START position. Basically you had to crank until it was good and spinning, then let go of the key and hope the rotation of the heavy flywheel would carry it through and trigger a spark event, which would then cause the engine to run.

I simply connected both these yellow and black wires together and it's been fine ever since.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

yup yup yup

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

No points, it's got updated ignition. I believe from a 79 RX7. It doesn't have the normal ignitors, it's a gold "box" with 4 wires in/4 wires out. I'm still going through all the mess of wires.

Mike

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

79 has points, not electronic like the 80 and 81-85.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

You have an '80 igniton. I've never worked on one before.

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Ah, figures I'd have the odd one. Maybe I need to upgrade to 81-85.

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Well, I just finished redoing all the ignition wires & checking all the grounds I could find. It's still the same, so I'm pretty much stumped. I may just rig up a switch to the ignition plug to turn the ign./pump on manually. Anyone know offhand which wires to use? My wiring schematics for the '2 are pretty lame.

thanks,
Mike

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

Could that big *** starter relay box be causing the problem?

Just a wild *** guess.

kevin arnold

check your timming make sure it's set right just a guess

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

I thought that might be a possibility, but I haven't torn it apart yet. Maybe I can find another one in a pick-n-pull and swap it to see if anything changes.

Mike

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know offhand where the starter relay is? That's the next thing I'm checking. I tore apart the ignition "box" the other day and it looks sort've home-made, so I'm not sure it's a factory part. It has 2 ignitors glued inside a gold box.

Anyways, I guess checking relays is next as I'm running out of ideas and it's been weeks now that the '2 has been sitting. I'm starting to get frustrated.

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

The big *** box on your passenger side firewall, no?

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

You mean the regulator? Nah, I ditched that awhile back and put a later model internally regulated alternator.

Smeagol

iTrader: (1)

Well, I finally figured out the culprit.. you'll love this.. the fuse!

Of course the fuses were the first thing I checked when this initially happened. My fuses looked fine on visual inspection, no broken filaments or anything out of the ordinary looking about them. I guess internally they were messed up though -- no or intermittent continuity. Probably due to old age, I have no idea how old these fuses were. I replaced the fuel pump/ign. fuse and now it works fine. This was all triggered when I noticed the emergency flasher was sporatically working, and when I messed with the fuses/wiring it would work/not work.

After all that work and rigging up another 12v switch to the fuel pump, it turns out to be a 25 cent fuse. All I can say is it was a learning experience, heh. Check your fuses!

Mike

VincenzoL

iTrader: (1)

^OH MAN!!! I never mentioned that because I thought for sure you checked all your fuses already. And by checking them, I was assuming you were using a test light... doh!!!

When it comes to those old fuse panels it's also a good idea to get some light emery cloth or sand paper so you can file off any corrosion on the terminals so that all the fuses and the panel have good continuity. OH WELL! Glad you're mobile again man!