Very nice deal. How did you find it?

 

So I have a bit of a problem...

Tried to start my car last night while in Redmond, it revved and started, made a sound like a backfire, and promptly died. Would not start again and was eventually towed back to my home.

Now it sounds funky when i try to start it, almost like a loss of compression on one of the rotors. there's a *womp* like noise when it turns over.

So.... any ideas on where I should start looking on fixing it. Any ideas at all or ideas of test to do to know exactly what is wrong would be greatly appreciated.

 

Yes, well now check to make sure it isnt flooded, AND also make sure a vac line didn't break / fall off. Also did you have a good mix of coolant in your car? If you didnt have enough antifreeze your engine might have froze and caused some damage.

I would check that stuff first, and get back to us.

I hope it's fine!

 

Well it's not flooded. A studied glance around the engine bay produced no bad lines that I could see (though doesn't mean there aren't any at this point). I know I have the right mixture of coolant because I did it not too long ago.

Going through a pseudo-check list I started with the fuel pump. Jumping the wire, I noticed that the fuel pump remained on for much longer than the "few seconds" that my book says it should stay on for. I had to turn the car off before it would turn off, so I'm taking that as a bad sign and will go further with it for the moment.

 

Update. We have it narrowed down to 2 possibilities.

The first is that the fuel pressure regulator is shot and causing a leak somewhere. We isolated the hissing noise to it.

The second is a bad fuel pump. I'm not exactly sure how much pressure there should be, but I was able to hold in both the secondaries with my hands without too much trouble.

Ideas?

 

hmmmm......... ok well let me throw out a few ideas here... just a sec.

 

ok so first....
fuel pump :
make sure that the fuel pump is getting 12v (power). Get an ohm meter and throw it on the pumps power terminals.
In order to make this easier, jump the 2 port green terminal that is by/under the AFM. Since you are NA your pump should be getting 12 volts all the time. When you jump that connect your dont have to start the car for the pump to turn on. Just turning the car to on will turn on the fuel pump and cause the fuel to flow. You should be able to hear it rushing through the fuel rail.

IF you got fuel, you should be ok in the fuel department. Next would be to make sure your getting spark.

.... the .... next thing I guess you should check is the fuses. Check the fuses in the engine compartment AND the fuse by your clutch pedal. The fuel pumps fuse is there.

The easiest way ...... to check spark haha... ... well I dont know if its the best idea but "I" pull the spark plug wire off the coil itself and see if there is spark. BTW ..haha Dont try to do this with an oven mit... (IT WAS A LONG DAY WORKING ON THE CAR! I was starting to lose it! )

I havnt seen many stock FPRs go out.... make sure that the vac line going to the FPR is on there, and that the other side of the fpr is on also. There are a few vac lines that go on under the secondaries/ behind the primaries by the Oil injectors.

.... have you checked the compression? Are you sure its not SUPER flooded? It has been known to happen. Pull the egi fuse and crank it over for 10 seconds at a time giving a little break. That SHOULD clear it out, but once I had to pull my spark plugs to get all the fuel out.

ummmmmm....... spark ... fuel .... ...... air ....
should be good to go... keep me up to date. Call me if you need to!

 

ooooohhh!! and are you smelling fuel? If you have a sound BY your FPR and you smell fuel it might be your pulsation dampener! On the s4 they go out allllll the time, and pours / leaks fuel all over the back of your engine/tranny.
The PD is located on the primary fuel rail where the FRP is on the secondary rail.

IF YOU MESS WITH THE PD DONT SCREW THE SCREW IN! it will tear the PD and make it useless.

 

Ok, so here's the final prognosis.

We finally decided that there was nothing wrong with the fuel system. PD was fine, FPR was fine. etc etc...
Next step is spark plugs. We decide to simply replace them and also check for a spark in each of them by setting them one-by-one against the frame and cranking the engine. Everything sparks fine. Then when we pull the T2 spark plug and crank, there's the *hsssst*hsssst*hsssst* that is the compression escaping the plug hole.

And that's when it hits us. We didn't get that *hsssst* noise with the front rotor. We double checked just to make sure, but there is definitely no compression what-so-ever on that front rotor. Blown side seal, yeah?

So, I shall be driven back to pullman instead of driving myself, and be without a car, since my baby is stuck, incapacitated, in my garage :'(

 

Oh, btw, my dad and i were wondering.... What exactly is DTSS?

 

oh man I am sorry to hear about that! No it is not a blown side seal if you have absolutely NO compression on one rotor. Well let me resay that

There is a better chance you had 2 blow apex seals, instead of 3 blown side seals.

(the side seals are on the side of the rotors and are VERY hard to break. They do however become stuck from overheating the stock side seal spring will become fatigued and wont press the side seal out enough to seal. The apex seals are.. well on the apex of the rotor and take a lot more of the pounding from the engine. They are much more likely to go.)

You said..... that it was fine when you came home, but just blew 2 apex seals sitting still.. O.o That .. is .. the .. weirdest think I have ever heard... are you sure like a younger brother didn’t take the car out for a drive while you were gone or something?!?!

Yes if you did not hear any his his his when you had the spark plug out of the first rotor when you turned it over then ... yes you blew 2 apex seals. If you were to only blow one you would hear ... hiss womp womp his womp womp cause 1 side of your rotor would still have compression....

For a final test.. I would take both the leading spark plugs out and turn it over and see if you hear a nice thump thump thump thump thump or a gallop like thump thump silence thump silence thump ....

either way im really sorry that it died on you! Is your dad going to keep the car and rebuild or what?


DTSS is a bushing in the rear of all second gens that allows the rear wheels to turn (toe) in while you are turning under high g-forces. It DOES allow you to take corners much faster IF you can put nice linear inputs into the car. But once you make a sudden jerk, or if you hit a pot hole at the higher speed your car will become unpredictable making it almost impossible for you to recover. The car is MUCH more solid without them. And a requirement if you are going to be drifting. Also the 20+ year old bushings do wear out and make weather (rain ice) driving VERY scary.


(PS) if you have a mirror and a very bright flashlight you can look into the leading spark plug hole and look AT the apex seals to see how they look. I still think it’s weird that you would blow 2 seals..... Sitting there...

 

Couldn't say what's going to happen to the car now. I would love to keep it and rebuild, but I don't think my dad has the kinda time to devote to something like that. On top of that, we don't have any of the kind of equipment you would need for that, like an engine lift, nor the room, really. It may well just become a parts car or sell as is to someone who has the time and resources.

I'm still keeping an eye open for a good TII deal for when I get a job and hence money. Since while my parents will get along just fine with the 2 cars we have left, I still kinda need one. Or rather it makes my life a whole lot easier to have one.

 

okk well .... I have tons of engine parts if you ever do decide to rebuild it. If you want to sell it let me know also, either I or one of my friends would most likely want to purchase it.

Again sorry bud! I would save it! Now you have the perfect project t2 swap!

 

Hokay, so...

My dad is having me research engine rebuild/replace options.
I know of atkins rotary and know that they are reasonably rated. I also know mazda trix and know they're good, but spendy.
I'm not exactly sure where else to look. If I had my way, I would get a good rebuild kit and do it myself, probably with a lot of help from the forums, lol.

So I guess what I'm looking is any recommendations on a source for a good/reasonable rebuild kit, or a rebuilt engine, and maybe the time commitment, equipment, and knowledge i would need for either....

I would love to save this car.

 

Ok, so here is what I would recommend that you do. Because you engine just randomly lost a lot of its compression, (really weird) it sounds like some springs and or seals went/become to weak.

You NEED to take the engine apart and find out what happened. IF you did not blow or break an apex seal your engine is going to be 95% good. If its just some apex seal/side seal springs went weak it will be a VERY cheap and easy rebuild. If all your seals are good, just upgrading and replacing all the springs with FD costs a little less than $150. But just opening the engine and putting it back together will require you to get new coolant seals. That is about $185.

http://www.pineappleracing.com/index...PROD&ProdID=99

You are somewhat lucky, cause right now I am doing a minimal engine refresh/rebuild. Basically took it apart, found everything was in decent shape, except one of my housings wasn't up to my standards. Here is a link to my daily driver build thread. (I am waiting for the parts to get here, just ordered the other day)

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/check-my-rebuild-parts-please-718320/

The FD springs are a lot stronger/better than the stock s4, and I really recommend you upgrade to those. Once you take your engine apart and see HOW weak all the springs are after 150,000+ miles. They are almost if not useless.

There are many rebuild "kits" out, that will cost you anywhere from 400-2000 depending on if you need apex seals and so on. I REALLY think that you could rebuild it yourself, you will learn something amazing, have fun, and feel so proud after doing it yourself.

With that being said, there are a ton of places that rebuild engines. Myself (and a lot of my friends) are scared of atkins O.o so I don't recommend them. Each place has its own positive and negatives. Pineapple racing for example has EXCELLENT quality (if rob works on it), is super close ( Portland OR.), but most rebuilds cost a lot. (look at the website above for the pricing. Another option is to send it out to Rotary Resurrection (http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2ndgen/home.html) HE is a lot cheaper, will check and only replace what needs to be replaced, and will give your engine a great freshen up. His negative is that you will need to ship your engine to him, and he only accepts so many at one time. So you kind of have to plan and wait for him to take more on.

That should really get you on your way. You really need to take it apart though, and see where you are. IF you had 2 blown apex seals and both of your housing are chewed up, it will NOT be worth it to rebuild. It is pretty cheap to just find another low milage engine and just swap. (OR BE REALLY NICE TO YOUR DAD and get him to drop in a turbo engine. )

Also when you rebuild / open up your engine you have the chance to port and modify for a little extra power. If you keep NA, and want to be quiet + good MPG I don't really recommend porting as it really doesn't do much.

Right now, you are in the same position I was ...about 1.5 year ago... I got a blown engine.... what should I do? kinda thing. Look at all your options, find out what your budget is, and see what shape your engine is in. That is all I can recommend for now. Keep me up to date!

Laters
~Tweak

 

Thanks for all the info, helps me out a lot

I would love to go turbo, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, that would require an upgrade to a turbo drive train as well if i wanted it to last more than 10,000 miles. Though maybe if I earn a lot of money between now and the summer....hmmm

Oh, btw, there's only 101,xxx miles on it XD.

 

Yes, if you want to do it right, it would require a few of the turbo parts.

ECU
injectors
flywheel
clutch
transmission
driveline
diff (and whole rear end)
ect...

The easiest thing to do it is to find a crashed t2 car, that had a great running engine. I found one that had minor front pass damage but the engine and everything else was great, for $1000. I most likely could have talked him down, but at the time I was a nub, and just wanted to go turbo at all costs. 0.o

SO for 1000$ or less, you could have a turbo everything IF you do all the work yourself. The work I would say is VERY easy, just time consuming. I had it all done in a weekend working 10+ hours on it a day. Well I had it all done and running, but I had the injector wires going to the wrong injectors causing it to run on 1 rotor when I was done.... ohhh man that was starting to **** me off. But its all good now.

Yeup, no problems on your options, I will keep an eye out for a crashed turbo car, (although everyone else is also ...so you have to be fast. I report all my finds to jenkins first )

If you dont mind me asking, what is your budget and time frame?
And also what is the ETA you will have the engine apart?

 

Yeah, I would love to be able to do a TII swap. It would allow me to keep this rx, it being my first, but would also give me the power of a turbo.

Don't mind at all you asking. budget is going to be a couple thousand... probably topping out at $5000. Lower is obviously better. Time frame doesn't really exist. This will probably become a summer type project for me, since I don't have the knowledge to do it is a weekend, lol.

I might be able to get the engine apart spring break or so. Will it hurt the engine at all if I leave it apart for extended periods of time? I wouldn't think it would, but it's always best to make sure

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!?!?!?111!!!1

OMG dude, for $5000 you could do a turbo swap AND rebuild the engine AND do tons of stuff! omg haha if that is your budget, than I wouldn't be worried WHAT SO ever! Working on rx7s is normally PRETTY cheap compared to regular piston engines. You could spend $5000 having someone else rebuild, and you just change the drivetrain to turbo, or you can do it all yourself and have a lot of money left over. WOW I was thinking you were in the range of 800-1000$. haha

You have SO many options now. I would DEFINITELY go turbo!

Have I gave you a ride in my NA-T 7 yet?

 

LOL, yeah. Well getting another rx7 was on our list of options, so that much money can certainly be on the plate. I'm thinking that's really what I'm going to push my dad to let me do.

No, I have yet to go for a ride in your NA-T, but that's also on my list so i can see what you all rave about with the turbo. I feel so deprived

 

hello everyone, i just graduated from pullman and i have a 93, i wish i would of saw this post earlier. anyways i have had my 93 for about 2 weeks picked it up for $4400 it has a fresh rebuild with a few mods. I might be driving it to pullman when the sun comes out. Anyways I was there last week and i saw a red 2nd gen with chains on is that you?

 

that would be me Chain drifting its the newest thing.

on a side note, are you friends with a kid that works at schucks? You traded in your like SUV for tha FD, but you have no clue what it was?

Interested in selling it at all? I can offer you 6k cash right now if you send me a picture.

 

ya iam friends with him, also i got a 10k offer the other day on it, so im holding out, whats your email i can shoot over pics. The deal was my 99 4runner which i had 7400 in for his rx7 and 3k cash so i think i did pretty well. But ya man ill keep your offer i have met up with alot of rx7's over here and they have told me all about it and what its worth

 

by the way what do you think a trust intercooler used is worth for this car it came with one?

 

i also have a stock manifold, airbox and the stock turbos