NW RX-7 Forum Serving Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Alaska members

FD is back on the road

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 22, 2007 | 12:16 AM
  #1  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
FD is back on the road

A bit of history:

In 2005 my turbos pretty much gave up at a track day in June.

Still worked, but consuming a lot of oil.

Chris Godwin then converted it to a single for me (T04S, 0.84 hot side).

It survived (barely) a couple autocrosses after that, and then the engine gave out at Baxter's Historics during a 'parade' lap.

A coolant seal let go. The motor was cooked - the PFC said 125c. ouch!

Late last summer the car went in to Pineapple for a motor rebuild, along with a few other things while it was apart.

After retrieving it from Rob and Co. last September, it was driven 20 miles and then put on jackstands in my garage for a few more goodies.

Today it finally left the garage and went on a drive.

Definitely not much of a street car now.

But, it works!
Nice to be able to get it out of the garage so I can break in the motor.

Here's a pic of the car from Baxters:
http://rpnw.xen-fx.com/gallery/Portl...till_s_3rd_Gen


Here's what all has been done since the original twins blew.

T04S Turbo
Greddy 2 row FMIC (with bumper rebar installed)
Apexi Power FC
Wilwood SL6 front calipers on Coleman 2 piece rotors (12.72 inch)
Removed Power Steering ( more on that later)
Removed A/C
Motor rebuilt by Pineapple Racing
Innovate LC1 Wideband installed
Datalogit Installed
Oil Temp gauge (more on that later)
Dual EGT gauge from Pineapple Racing
Bose stereo and associated wiring harnesses removed
Dual Mocal oil coolers installed w/CF ducts
RaceShop Harness Bar
Schroth ASM 4 pt harnesses
ACT 6 puck (sprung hub) clutch
Racing Beat flywheel (9 or 9.5 lbs)
Racing Beat dual tip exhaust
Ground Zero oil pan
B&M Shifter ( I like this a lot)
Koyo radiator
FD Surge Tank cover (ordered, not received)
Supra Fuel Pump
Aeromotive F/R
1300cc Secondaries

Took for a drive tonight and filled the gas tank ($60!), and then check the AFR.

With all that, there are a few bugs to take care of.

Running really rich. AFR's are 9 under mild boost ( ~ 2 lbs at 3500 RPM)
I will be calling Ralph at GZ to do a simple tune on this. 9 is just too rich.

During my drive this evening, the water temps never went over 185f.
The PFC agreed with 85c.

The oil temps (at the filter) showed a pretty steady 210-215f, even when driving at 50 MPH in 4th gear. The oil gauge I installed was a cheap autometer gauges, and I don't think I believe it. As soon as I stopped the car I grabbed hoild of both the oil outlet and return lines to the motor - didn't feel like 210 to me. It didn't burn my hand anyway.

The first oil cooler in the series was fairly warm to the touch, the second was noticably cooler, so the mocal oil T-Stat appears to be working.

I installed one of those cheap Autometer AFR gauges. Hooking it up to the stock 02 sensor would be rather useless, but the Innovate LC1 controller is programmable, and you can set it up to properly drive the cheap gauge. Even so, I am not sure it was worth the trouble. It still tends to look like an on/off switch.

The FD is a handful without the power steering. I think it will be fine on the track, I will have to wait and see about autox. If I put PS back in the car, I would like to put in a quicker ratio rack with an electric pump.

Oil consumption: While idling in the garage it was smoking pretty bad. I think that the turbo may be leaking a little, and some test sessions in the garage without the intercooler connected let some oil accumulate in the IC. The smoking cleared up after a couple miles however. Running pig rich can't be helping the oil consumption either. The high temps last summer may indicate a turbo rebuild in the future. I will wait and see...

Ground Zero oil pan. I think it still leaks. It has come to mind that the cast aluminum pan may not allow a proper seal with silicone/RTC/whatever. The original O-ring was too small - it leaked. Randall Rowland has found some heavier material that he says may work well. So, I may have to do that. Time now to go look at the floor under the car...

Some future projects:

Electric water pump
Race seats ( 1" lower than stock would be nice - sunroof limits headroom)
Roll bar
Alignment ( the alignment is pretty bad right now)
Sway bars (speedway or similar. The rest is Ground Control with Koni/Eibach)

Anyway, one more FD is running again.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 12:31 AM
  #2  
rx7guy27's Avatar
rx7guy27
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Mesa, AZ
Hey Jared I am glad that you got the FD running again, with this post I am one away from 100 so wish me luck, LOLOL. See you guys at the next meeting. peace
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 02:03 AM
  #3  
afgmoto1978's Avatar
Lift Off in T-Minus...
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 4
From: Kingman, AZ
Nice, I will see you out on the track soon.

Wonder how hard it would be to retrofit the RX-8 electric rack to the FD??? Another option is to go to a steering quickener setup like this http://www.stockcarproducts.com/steer4.htm, though you lose steering feedback.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 10:09 AM
  #4  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
Originally Posted by afgmoto1978
Nice, I will see you out on the track soon.

Wonder how hard it would be to retrofit the RX-8 electric rack to the FD??? Another option is to go to a steering quickener setup like this http://www.stockcarproducts.com/steer4.htm, though you lose steering feedback.
That's one way.

Another way would be a race steering rack with P/S.
http://www.woodwardsteering.com/

BTW, the power steering is going back on my car.

I asked about it in the 3rd gen section months ago, and opinions were split.

The steering is pretty heavy with street tires, and will get heavier with R compounds. It will slow down my reaction time should the back end kick out, and likely cause me to hit cones in the autox. So the P/S going back on, for now just the stock unit.

I'd like to make it to a track day or two this year. Just need break-in and tune.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 01:39 PM
  #5  
pp13bnos's Avatar
Pineapple Racer
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,698
Likes: 7
From: Oregon
Good to hear anouther FD is back on the street. I too, put the PS system back into my car. I'm getting old, and its just nice to have.

I just finished re doing my IC piping system, and picked up a meth/water injection setup and a Apexi 3 bar map sensor. I plan on running meth with pump, and shooting for around 20 psi. The meth, and map sensor, bolth need to be installed....then off to Ralphs also. Keep in mind, I'm still on my stock motor with 50k miles on it now. Everytime I drive it, I feel like I'm driving a ticking time bomb.

CJ
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 02:55 PM
  #6  
afgmoto1978's Avatar
Lift Off in T-Minus...
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 4
From: Kingman, AZ
Are you using the WI as a backup or a total trust the reliability of the system tuning tool? I'm doing water injection too, but only as a backup safety system.

I'm thinking later this year I should look into finding a way to retrofit the RX-8 electric rack into an FD.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 06:07 PM
  #7  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
Originally Posted by afgmoto1978

I'm thinking later this year I should look into finding a way to retrofit the RX-8 electric rack into an FD.
Any particular reason for retrofitting the entire rack?

How about just plumbing in an electric P/S pump?

Someone was selling an electric pump from an MR2 a few weeks ago that he had bought for that purpose. I have no idea if that pump supplies the proper pressure and volume, but it shouldn't be too hard to find a suitable pump.

Maybe just the RX-8 pump?
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 06:10 PM
  #8  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
Originally Posted by pp13bnos
I'm getting old, and its just nice to have.
I am old.

It's nice to have, but that's not why I'm putting it back.

Reaction times will be faster with the PS.

Not the reaction time actually, but the response time, which is the amount of time from when you realize you need to make a steering input to the time you actually make it.

Small corrections without the PS will be slower. I knew they would be, but the manual steering is heavier than I anticipated.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 06:23 PM
  #9  
afgmoto1978's Avatar
Lift Off in T-Minus...
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 4
From: Kingman, AZ
Well, the RX-8 rack is strickly electric, no hydraulic fluid required. You would reduce weight and save space. As far as the complexity of the electical controls for that rack, that would be something that would need to be addressed. If it has is own control box, you would have to figure out a way to plug into the speed sensor and make sure you signal conditioning is the same as the RX-8s.

Though if the rack is wider than the FDs, you may induce unwanted bumpsteer into the mix, so going with the MR2 electric pump may be best.

Anyways, I'm thread jacking, sorry. I will see you out at the track soon.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 06:50 PM
  #10  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
Originally Posted by afgmoto1978
Well, the RX-8 rack is strickly electric, no hydraulic fluid required. You would reduce weight and save space. As far as the complexity of the electical controls for that rack, that would be something that would need to be addressed. If it has is own control box, you would have to figure out a way to plug into the speed sensor and make sure you signal conditioning is the same as the RX-8s.

Though if the rack is wider than the FDs, you may induce unwanted bumpsteer into the mix, so going with the MR2 electric pump may be best.

Anyways, I'm thread jacking, sorry. I will see you out at the track soon.
No problem, this is good info. I didn't realize the RX-8 was all electric.
The electric hydraulic pump would be the simplest, though the RX-8 rack would be pretty cool.
Reply
Old May 23, 2007 | 07:57 PM
  #11  
pp13bnos's Avatar
Pineapple Racer
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,698
Likes: 7
From: Oregon
With meth, you can't realy tune if for a safety net. You will still shoot for the same a/f ratio as you do with a straight fuel mix....so that means you need to pull fuel out of the computer when you factor in the additional methanol. (PFC in my case.) The ability to lower intake temps by upto 40*F is a huge bonus, not to mention being able to run more timing safely is anouther nice plus. So all and all, i'll make more rwhp at the same psi, with less duty cycle on the injectors, and less stress on the fuel pump. 500rwhp on pump gas and a AI system does'nt sound to bad to me.

CJ
Reply
Old May 24, 2007 | 10:01 AM
  #12  
afgmoto1978's Avatar
Lift Off in T-Minus...
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 4
From: Kingman, AZ
That's true, I'm just doing H20. The simple fact that it's one more potential failure point really doesn't settle well with me. I hope you upgraded to the clog detection setup and pulling a signal from the injectors for a 3D water injection map.
Reply
Old May 28, 2007 | 01:46 AM
  #13  
jkstill's Avatar
Thread Starter
Searching for 10th's
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (11)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 42
From: Portland OR
The oil temps (at the filter) showed a pretty steady 210-215f, even when driving at 50 MPH in 4th gear. The oil gauge I installed was a cheap autometer gauges, and I don't think I believe it. As soon as I stopped the car I grabbed hoild of both the oil outlet and return lines to the motor - didn't feel like 210 to me. It didn't burn my hand anyway.
The Mocal Oilstat was replaced this weekend. It appears the other one was damaged or defective (it was used).

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...p?Product=1226

Just got back from a drive, and the oil temps at the oil pedestal never got over 160f. Quite a change from the 215f I saw last week.

Kudos to Pegasus Racing: I ordered the oilstat Wednesday morning from another company, and when I asked about the order status I was told it wasn't in stock.

Pegasus had one, I ordered it at 3:00 PM PDT, which is 5:00 PM where Pegasus is located. They shipped it out Wednesday night, I got it Thursday morning at 9:36 AM.

That is awesome service!


The light was good this afternoon, so I took some new pics.
BTW, the power steering is back on, and the car is much easier to try. Wouldn't know if I liked it or not unless I tried it.
Attached Thumbnails FD is back on the road-p1010007.jpg   FD is back on the road-p1010011.jpg   FD is back on the road-p1010013.jpg  
Reply
Old May 28, 2007 | 01:13 PM
  #14  
SAMIboarder's Avatar
JGTC every day.
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Olympia, WA
congrats man, can't wait to get mine back on the road.
Reply
Old May 28, 2007 | 01:30 PM
  #15  
Upgrayedd's Avatar
Double Dose
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,009
Likes: 1
From: Seattle
^^^ +1

Looking good!
Reply
Old May 28, 2007 | 02:35 PM
  #16  
riede93FD's Avatar
Full Member
Tenured Member 05 Years
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Olympia, WA
Right on, nice to know another FD is on the road. Mine is closer than ever, you must be so happy!
Reply
Old May 29, 2007 | 02:11 AM
  #17  
wadejg's Avatar
Full Member
Tenured Member 15 Years
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: Easton, MD
Originally Posted by jkstill
Ground Zero oil pan. I think it still leaks. It has come to mind that the cast aluminum pan may not allow a proper seal with silicone/RTC/whatever. The original O-ring was too small - it leaked. Randall Rowland has found some heavier material that he says may work well. So, I may have to do that. Time now to go look at the floor under the car...

Anyway, one more FD is running again.
Congrats on the car up and running.

My Ground Zero/Groundzero/Pineapple racing oil pan also leaks. At first it leaked fast, and after some tweaking by Rob, now it appears to leak very slowly. It appears to leak around the entire seal. Not great for something that was supposed to stop oil pan leaks, oh well, live and learn.

I'd love to hear if you find a fix.

Regards,
Justin Wade
Reply
Old May 29, 2007 | 02:44 PM
  #18  
xenocide's Avatar
01000101
Tenured Member 20 Years
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: vancouver, wa
hey, good to hear jared. I will definitely make it to the next meeting to check it out. I am going to be pulling my engine here real soon now, just picked up a hoist, so i'm almost good to go.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
distr0
Megasquirt Forum
48
Mar 18, 2022 06:17 PM
Th0m4s
Build Threads
25
Feb 26, 2019 02:04 AM
lt1_rx7
Blue Ridge Rotary Run
46
Oct 9, 2015 03:11 PM
CaptainKRM
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
14
Aug 26, 2015 09:52 PM
Feffman
Racing Kills Lounge
0
Aug 15, 2015 06:19 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 PM.