Water seal?
02-10-11, 03:05 PM
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Water seal?
So i bought the car 1/22/11 from a guy up in Chicago. Ive been reading around that when bubbles come up through your coolant fill you have a worn water seal which means a rebuild. when i was looking at the car we arranged to have them bring it to a Mazda dealership to double check things over. He took out the fuse and turned the car over, no bubbles. Recently I have cleaned out all the must-do's after buying an FD and when i ran the car with the coolant cap off air bubbles began to rise. Is there any kind of band-aid fix for this or am i just gonna have to bite the bullet and do a full rebuild.
02-10-11, 05:38 PM
#2
Are you losing coolant with no external leaks? Does the car overheat? If not, you probably don't have anything to worry about.
You can also pressure test the cooling system with a special radiator cap and pump: http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant_leaks.htm.
You can also pressure test the cooling system with a special radiator cap and pump: http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant_leaks.htm.
02-11-11, 07:08 AM
#3
A coolant seal failure is a common problem....at least in the FDs of which I'm familiar. IMO it's the price for forced induction. Boost is power. More power= more heat= more stress. NA rotarys have the problem, but AFAIK, not nearly as soon as the FDs.
Still, before doing anything, make sure you have a failed seal. Besides the 'Champagne test" these are all the symtoms I can think of... but no single symtom by itself is confirmation. Many symtoms could be from other causes. However the more symtoms/conditions you have in combination, the more likely it is a coolant seal failure.........
*Stumbling idle on cold start-up that clears up quickly. The combustion chamber is fouled with coolant. As soon as it's purged or burned up, your car will run fine until the next cold start.
*Slightly sweet exhaust smell, especially on start-up. See above. Coolant is being burned and it has a distinctive smell.
*"White smoke" (steam) on cold start-up even in warm/hot weather. See above.
*A coolant over-flow tank that is over-flowing. This will usually result in a puddle under the car near the right front...the area of the over-flow tank. When coolant gets hot it expands and that's what the overflow tank is for. But with a failed seal the nature vacuum that forms and pulls that coolant back out as the engine cools down is lost. That leaves that coolant stranded in the tank and eventually it overflows.
*Coolant loss that isn't explained by a puddle on your garage floor. It's being consumed by the engine and going out the exhaust.
*Spiking temps that seemingly recover on their own almost as quickly. Air pockets in the cooling system allow steam to form. That will cause temp spiking. This is different than a rising temp just after a period of hard boost. It can happen as your steadily cruising down the highway.
*Boiling sounds after shut down even shortly after properly "burping" the system. See above.
*Failed coolant system pressure test.
*Failed test of coolant for hydrocarbons.
*Unusually clean plugs, or wet plugs if you pull them right away after starting the car. (Sometimes you can even smell the coolant)
*One or more episodes of serious overheating in the car's history regardless of miles. (from what I've read, 115 C./240 F. seems to be the critical number for OEM seals to begin to degrade)
*An otherwise well maintained and cared-for FD approaching 100K miles or so.
As for a bandaid, some have used one of the many "Stop-Leak" coolant additives to give them a bit more time but use at your own risk. While it's not anything that will leave you on the side of the road, a failed coolant seal can lead to errosion/rust/pitting of the coolant seal grooves in the irons. That can cause a junk iron and make the inevitiable rebuild more expensive.
BTW, I'm in Bellevue. When the weather breaks give me a PM and we can check it out.
Still, before doing anything, make sure you have a failed seal. Besides the 'Champagne test" these are all the symtoms I can think of... but no single symtom by itself is confirmation. Many symtoms could be from other causes. However the more symtoms/conditions you have in combination, the more likely it is a coolant seal failure.........
*Stumbling idle on cold start-up that clears up quickly. The combustion chamber is fouled with coolant. As soon as it's purged or burned up, your car will run fine until the next cold start.
*Slightly sweet exhaust smell, especially on start-up. See above. Coolant is being burned and it has a distinctive smell.
*"White smoke" (steam) on cold start-up even in warm/hot weather. See above.
*A coolant over-flow tank that is over-flowing. This will usually result in a puddle under the car near the right front...the area of the over-flow tank. When coolant gets hot it expands and that's what the overflow tank is for. But with a failed seal the nature vacuum that forms and pulls that coolant back out as the engine cools down is lost. That leaves that coolant stranded in the tank and eventually it overflows.
*Coolant loss that isn't explained by a puddle on your garage floor. It's being consumed by the engine and going out the exhaust.
*Spiking temps that seemingly recover on their own almost as quickly. Air pockets in the cooling system allow steam to form. That will cause temp spiking. This is different than a rising temp just after a period of hard boost. It can happen as your steadily cruising down the highway.
*Boiling sounds after shut down even shortly after properly "burping" the system. See above.
*Failed coolant system pressure test.
*Failed test of coolant for hydrocarbons.
*Unusually clean plugs, or wet plugs if you pull them right away after starting the car. (Sometimes you can even smell the coolant)
*One or more episodes of serious overheating in the car's history regardless of miles. (from what I've read, 115 C./240 F. seems to be the critical number for OEM seals to begin to degrade)
*An otherwise well maintained and cared-for FD approaching 100K miles or so.
As for a bandaid, some have used one of the many "Stop-Leak" coolant additives to give them a bit more time but use at your own risk. While it's not anything that will leave you on the side of the road, a failed coolant seal can lead to errosion/rust/pitting of the coolant seal grooves in the irons. That can cause a junk iron and make the inevitiable rebuild more expensive.
BTW, I'm in Bellevue. When the weather breaks give me a PM and we can check it out.
02-11-11, 11:03 AM
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okay good deal. might haft a have you check it out to confirm.
The symptoms for now are, when I turn the car on when the cap is off is bubbles rising. the car doesn't idle very smooth and definitely has a sweet smelling exhaust.
The symptoms for now are, when I turn the car on when the cap is off is bubbles rising. the car doesn't idle very smooth and definitely has a sweet smelling exhaust.
02-11-11, 03:08 PM
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Is this INSTANTLY as you turn on the car from cold or after it warms up? What I am getting at is the problem usually occurs when the thermostat opens, when the engine has warmed up. Going from my experience with a friends '89 it only happened after the warm up and he did in fact have a blown water seal.
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02-17-11, 10:17 PM
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Sgtblue mentioned addatives. Whether you choose to try one will probably depend on a combination of available time, and finances.
Alumaseal seems to be running about a 90% success rate right now. My own car has over 20,000 miles on it after the treatment, with no issues at all. Mine, however, is a 12a and does not have a turbo system (I'm a 1st gen guy, is a '93 a turbo car?
). If it is a turbo, and if the turbo uses coolant for cooling, then that might be a concern. I really don't know.
Anyway, you can check out this thread for more info on it: https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-rx-7-technical-256/too-much-smoke-930506/
Best of luck.
.
Alumaseal seems to be running about a 90% success rate right now. My own car has over 20,000 miles on it after the treatment, with no issues at all. Mine, however, is a 12a and does not have a turbo system (I'm a 1st gen guy, is a '93 a turbo car?
). If it is a turbo, and if the turbo uses coolant for cooling, then that might be a concern. I really don't know.Anyway, you can check out this thread for more info on it: https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-rx-7-technical-256/too-much-smoke-930506/
Best of luck.
.
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