martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

I accidentally poured an entire 16 oz. bottle of MMO in my tank before a fill-up. (Thinking about the hot chick filling up her Prelude in the next bay over.) The bottle says 4 oz. for 10 gallons of gas. The fill-up took 11 gallons plus whatever was in the tank. There were no other additives in the previous tank. It smells a little funny from the exhaust but no other signs of trouble. I've only driven about 10 miles since the MMO was added. Should I do anything? Will it hurt anything? Should run it hard or go soft? (I'm guessing hard.)
-Marty

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Any amount of MMO is too much, to be honest. If you read the MSDS on the product, you will find out that it is nothing more then some wax and solvents. "Wax mud", as Icemark put it a few years ago. And I think that's an excellent way of describing it.

MMO isn't going to do you any good. If you soak stuff in it, you MAY accomplish a little cleaning. But the solvents in MMO are exactly those found in gasoline. And gasoline doesn't contain all the solids that MMO does.

I wouldn't worry too much about running the junk through the fuel system. If it was my car, I would just drive it until the tank was empty.

I can't believe that you did this because of a "hot chick filling up her Prelude". Seriously, pay more attention to what you are doing.

martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

OK, thanks. But is this another case of one guy saying one thing and another saying the complete opposite based on opinion and "personal experience"? Are there others out there that would contradict you?, because I know I've seen some posts/threads about guys using it.

By the way, the chick with the prelude thing was a lie. I actually didn't read the bottle before pouring it in and was so excited to be driving my car after a long winter that I just wanted to fill up and get going. Still though, I admit it was stupid and no, I wasn't thinking about what I was doing. Go easy on me. We're all friends, right?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

The thing about additives is that you will find a hell of a lot of people who "swear by" some kind of magic liquid. Few of these people actually have any real evidence that the additive has helped them in any way. And any real evidence from those who have it needs to be taken with extreme skepticism.

As I mentioned, look up the MSDS for MMO and take a look at it's ingredients. It's just some solvents and wax. It's not even an oil. The ingredients, minus the wax, are already present in gasoline in much more appropriate quantities.

In general, all additives are snake oil. This is especially true for garbage like Slick50, Z-Max, MotorUp!, etc.

I'd love to hear from anyone with actual scientific evidence that an additive has been beneficial to them.

Edit...As for people believing that MMO will help them, people believe in all kinds of crazy things. The word "belief" in itself belies the need for evidence. For example, "so-and-so believes in a god". There is no evidence for any sort of god to exist, yet billions believe in them.

BrownBoy

iTrader: (7)

Is premix also useless Aaron?

martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

So after I burn through this tank, do I need to do anything to rid the engine of any deposits from the wax, etc.? What about SeaFoam?

Basically, I was trying to back up the omp with the MMO. I had planned on using about 4 oz. of 2-stroke at every fill-up, but decided to use MMO this time.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Additive packages from different gas companies are different enough to feel in driving and see in mpg...MMO? I stopped using it a long time ago. Never used Seafoam, won't comment on it.

Mario III

Crit

iTrader: (6)

Aaron, you should be careful when presenting opinion as fact, especially here. I've seen several small generator gensets that show much better break-in with MMO than without. It's my only basis, but it seems to be more than what you've got.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Premix and additives are two completely different things.

Premix is certainly not useless. If you have removed the metering oil system, then your only choice is premix.

Now, what is up for debate (in my brain anyway) is the benefits of premix over just using the metering oil system. There is some anecdotal evidence that premix may be better, but since no actual scientific study has been conducted outside of Mazda, the evidence will never leave the realm of anecdotal.

In a true scientific study, a large sample of brand new engines (20? 50?) would be run on engine dynos under exactly the same conditions. Half would receive premix, half would run on the metering oil system, and those running the experiment would be kept in the dark as to which is which. Then at set intervals they would be torn down and wear measurements taken. As you can imagine, the cost of this would be in the millions so it's no wonder why it has not been done.

Without a doubt, the metering oil system is perfectly adequate for street driven cars. Stock or mildly modified is fine. Now when we start talking about 400+ HP or track driven, then we can consider the stock system to be a bit inadequate. Track driven cars that operate at continuous high RPM should be premixed, in my opinion. Cars that are putting out 3, 4, 5, etc. times the stock output should be premixed (a lot more air and fuel is entering the engine under these conditions, the stock system cannot know that).

But to take a car with 150K already on the clock and suddenly start premixing because it's "better"? Pointless...

I've never used SeaFoam, so I can't comment. However past experience makes me want to lump SeaFoam in with all the other magical injector cleaners and additives. You'll probably be fine. There are crazy people who premix with MMO all the time and don't seem to experience any negative consequences.

If you really want to do this (why?) then use an actual premix oil instead. Most 2 stroke oils formulated for fuel injection will do the job.

That would be the anecdotal evidence I speak of. There is possible evidence that it may be a benefit in certain circumstances, but again, we have tests in uncontrolled circumstances with no scientific method to back them up. I hope that I did not come across as pushing a "fact", because all the posts I've made above are based on my opinions which have been formulated from my experiences. As I have mentioned, the MSDS for MMO lays out it's ingredients. It's not even really an oil. Small gensets (presumably air cooled) offer a completely different environment then a street driven rotary. I'm not being argumentative here, but is it not possible that the gensets in which MMO was used were just made better at the factory then the others? And if they were not completely disassembled and measured prior to breaking, on what basis is the comparison made?

FyVe

iTrader: (1)

completely off topic but I still own a 2000 prelude SH and i'll tell you that any chick driving any prelude (as long as the chick and the prelude are good looking) is a huge attraction and i'd definitely pour like 6 bottles in because of that. no blame on you!

martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for all your replies. I certainly do not want to start yet another debate/discussion on premix vs. not premixing/omp because I've read several of them and while I obviously have not yet made up my mind, I don't want to re-hash the same topic. I appreciate the thoughtful responses and will take them under advisement. I also appreciate the intelligent consideration and rationale used in the comments posted here.

I believe I will cease using additives and only use a light mix of premix when I feel I'll be driving the car a little harder. This is primarily a street-driven car and I don't want to clog anything up. I do however, have a tank full of gas and MMO that I need to burn, so off I go!

Any other comments are welcome and will be read with open ears.

Cutsman354

I work at a shop that swears by MMO and other BG products, personally I think they are garbage. The SeaFoam however I have used and IMO has helped in every car I put it in including my recently purchased rex. Weather or not it was the SeaFoam that helped the car run better after I bought it I cant say, it could have been from just driving it (it sat for 2 years). Also according to what Icemark posted in an earlier thread of mine Mazda uses SeaFoam in a combustion chamber cleaning kit for the RX-8's.

wment

Someone mentioned premixing. What would be a recommended amount if the MOP has been removed.

martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

Check the search function. There have been numerous threads going into deep detail about premixing.

Kentetsu

Interesting notes on MMO. Personally, I've used it a couple of times over the course of several years, but never really "got into" it.

My favorites are:

1. Seafoam. Every time I dump a can in the gas tank, my engine runs stronger for weeks afterward. My "theory" is that it cleans the gunk out of the apex seals, resulting in higher compression. I have never confirmed this with a compression test though.

2. Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer. Made the mistake of using this in place of bar and chain oil one time, damned saw wouldn't cut **** afterward. The chain would just slide over the wood no matter how much pressure was applied. Had to drain it out. After that, I did perform some testing. I put a few drops of Lucas on one side of the rusty hedge trimmer my wife was bitching about, and on the other side I put a few drops of Castrol 20/50. I started up the trimmer and within a matter of about 10 seconds the Lucas had worked its way down the entire length of the trimmer, while the Castrol made it about 3 or 4 teeth down. Later, when I accidently overfilled the crank case during an oil change, I damaged the oil control rings and was leaving such a smoke trail that I couldn't even drive the car. Having nothing to loose, I used a quart of Lucas in place of a quart of oil. This eliminated (estimated) 95% of the issue. The only time it would smoke then would be during races, letting off the gas at very high rpms. I got another 20K or so miles out of that engine before it coughed up an apex seal at 213,000 miles. I continue to use the Lucas even on "good" motors now.

So, those are my theories and beliefs, and the results of my improvised testing.

martinhickey

iTrader: (3)

Thanks man! While the chick and the prelude at the pump that day didn't exactly cause my mishap, I can see where it would on any other day too. I appreciate the vote of confidence.