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I'm looking at buying my first RX7. I feel like buying a well maintained RX7 won't lose it's value over time and I have fallen in love with the rotary thank to owning a RX8. have found a 1992 import from japan that I might buy for around 20k. Do you all think that is a decent price for that year? The car has good compression and is very very clean looking. 65k Miles
Thanks!
Last edited by Arthur Davis; 04-12-18 at 04:12 PM.
Thanks for the input armans! I agree cars are not the best investment but I see the RX7 more being a classic in the future. (pretty much is now) There is something I find really cool about the right hand drive.
Thanks for the input armans! I agree cars are not the best investment but I see the RX7 more being a classic in the future. (pretty much is now) There is something I find really cool about the right hand drive.
If you are thinking about a car's value, a right hand drive might not be the best choice (at least from my perspective). So at the very least you just have to wage what's more important to you: Either the value or driving the car you truly want. Personally, I choose the latter.
This is why cars are a bad investment:
Originally Posted by Montego
This:
Key word: investment. If people are looking to make money a car is a terrible investment. Barring nifty things that people buy like a nice set of wheels, cars cost money just to own. From insurance, repairs, maintenance, depreciation due to miles driven, it all adds up and cuts into the profit margin. And thus makes it a terrible investment venture.
Even a car that is hardly driven can have repairs, especially the FD with all of the plastic parts.. From cooking of the 72 vacuum lines that are now 22-25 years old, to the plastic end tanks of the stock radiator, or the AST. These cars are old and the plastic pieces that see heat are bound to go at some point.
Let's look at maintenance: it's not just engine oil, transmission, and coolant changes (keep in mind if this is an investment those should be done at a shop so you can have the paper work). It is also tires. Even if not driven tires have an expiration date. And a decent set of tires will sink you $1K or close to it depending what you choose. Again, dipping into your investment.
Now enjoyment. So this car was bought for investment purposes but you want to enjoy it too... I ask you how can you enjoy a car when you are too nervous to put miles on it? Because the more you drive it, the less your car is worth. Never mind that each mile driven increases the likely hood of something needing to be repaired. What if you get a rock chip? which will happen btw... Every chip is costing you money. Get enough of them and a repaint will be in order. But there is a catch 22 when it comes to rock chips. If you don't paint it it will cut into your asking price but if you do paint it you won't get the $$ back in the resale because the car is now a respray.
See what I mean? Bad idea.... Unless you bought it for the love. If that is the case, then you won't mind putting miles nor sinking money into it because you'll get it back in smiles per gallon. And when the day comes for you to sell an added benefit will be that you'll get some decent money out of it (if you took good care of your car).
As above ^^^ I also have to say it - cars are a bad investment.
That aside, if you want the best chance to protect the money you spend on an RX7, either get a USDM 1995 or a JDM Spirit R type A. Both as low mileage as you can find.
Bottom line is that LHD cars have better resale in the USA. Truly the only reason to buy RHD is to get a late model or Spirit R or a rare body kit. It used to be that buying from Japan was super cheap and that offset the lower resale value in the USA/Canada. But not so much now.
The only other reason to buy RHD is if what you get for your money is far better than what you can buy LHD in the USA. But from what I see on the forums $20 -$25k USD will get you a nice car.
Just my 2c and I own a RHD lol!
Tom
Last edited by FEED AFFLUX v5; 04-12-18 at 10:25 PM.
Makes sense! Happy I came to the forums first before pulling the trigger. I'm going to be buying an rx7 because it's my dream car but it's nice to know what you all think about the investment part. Really helps me on the buying process.
For $20k, you could buy a much nicer car than an FC honestly. Nothing wrong with an FC, I own two. But you could get a nice FD for the $20k you''d be looking ant spending on an FC and as far as value is concerned, the FD will retain more value than an FC.
Yes, compared to setting your wallet on fire, building that summer home in Venezuela...or that Kosher pork sandwich shop in Syria.
Originally Posted by Arthur Davis
...I agree cars are not the best investment...
They’re not an investment at all. The only possible exception is if the car is showroom stock, low mileage and you’re willing to leave it, insured, in a climate controlled garage for an undetermined period and just look at it. Even then I think there’s a better and safer return in almost any mutual fund.
Its a hobby car. It will make about as much money as your bag of golf clubs.
I feel like buying a well maintained RX7 won't lose it's value over time
Really? OK, let's look at the numbers...
The original car sold for about $32,000. The owner of the car that you are considering buying is asking $20,000, which is a 37.5% loss over 26 years. Does that sound to you like it has maintained its value over time?
Now, let's look at the inflation-adjusted numbers. By using a simple inflation calculator, we can see that $32,000 back in 1992 was equivalent to about $57,000 today, yet the car is now worth only $20,000, which means that the car is only worth about 1/3 of its original price in "buying power". Keep in mind that there are also other costs involved in keeping the car, such as maintenance, consumables, taxes, insurance, and maybe also parking/storage depending on your situation. Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2018
(Note: Different inflation calculators will come up with different numbers due to their programming and which CPI they use. I just used this one because it came up in a Google search, and it is good enough for a rough estimate for our purposes.)
Therefore, if you are still convinced that an RX-7 is such a great investment, give me $20,000 now and 26 years later I will give you $12,500, which is exactly the same 37.5% loss demonstrated by the car that you are considering. Heck, I'm such a nice guy that I will give you $15,000 in 26 years to make it an even better "investment". What do you say?
By the way, what does your financial planner think about investing in cars?
Originally Posted by Zepticon
The right car is a good investment. There is a huge increase in prices on cetrain models here at the moment, 500-1000% increase over 5 years.
Yes, politics and regional situations can have an effect on pricing. For several years in the USA we saw a huge increase in the price of AR-15 rifles and just about any ammunition. A few years ago Venezuela had a massive toilet paper shortage, and Egypt had a pretty serious sugar shortage. Unfortunately, my crystal ball is currently broken so I can't see into the future to know if old Japanese sports cars will skyrocket in price here in the USA, but based on data over the last few decades there is no indication that this will happen. This doesn't mean that it will not happen, but caveat emptor.
Last edited by Evil Aviator; 04-21-18 at 01:12 PM.
I bought my FD Jan. 25th of this year. Since then, the S&P is down 6.3%. So long as I can sell it today for at least $2,550 less than what I paid for it, I say it was a good investment.
in all seriousness, in my case my car has actually gained value or kept it depending how you look at it. Except for all the mods, those are just a waste of money haha
Ok, so I will lay this one out for you to mull over......
The most highly valued Japanese car to date is without doubt the Toyota 2000GT. Purchase price in 1965 was just over $7,000 USD (i am using $7,230 for my math based on an article I read). The record breaking sale at auction in 2013 reached $1,150,000 USD.
Using the power of math, that equates to approximately an 11% year on year return over 48 years. (anyone know what auction fees are? I expect the seller saw much less than 1.15M in hand meaning the return will be less than 11%)
Sounds pretty good. But to get this you had to wait nearly 50 years and keep the car like showroom new. Assuming you never drove it and maintenance cost $0 over that time, you still would need to insure it. Imagine how much 50 years of insurance costs, not to mention the lost investment opportunity of that money compounded over 50 years that you would have to take off your "profit".
It is not crazy to get a 10% average return on investments and you do not pay to insure or maintain them (well a small management fee depending on what you buy). They also have a real value right now today. You are not waiting until the end of a 50 year period to cash out. You can also bet your *** the increase in the value of the 2000 GT was not linear and spiked in the last 15-20 years. In other words it was a gamble. (yes I know all investing is a gamble/risk)
I agree that the FD and other RX7's will appreciate in value. But in my book, if you are ONLY interested in money; unless you are sure it will surpass the value of a Toyota 2000 GT, your money is better invested elsewhere. Also bear in mind the 2000 GT was a Bond car - F&F doesn't quite cover that claim to fame They also built way less of them than the RX7.
Another thing to note, in the past 50 years gas powered cars became increasingly popular. However going forwards, as electric and self driving cars take over, do we all think the demand will still be there?
Bottom line, you buy a car for pleasure. Get your return in smiles per mile
Tom
Last edited by FEED AFFLUX v5; 04-21-18 at 11:45 PM.
I bought my FD Jan. 25th of this year. Since then, the S&P is down 6.3%. So long as I can sell it today for at least $2,550 less than what I paid for it, I say it was a good investment.
Did you figure fees, taxes, insurance, maintenance and fuel?
No, but I also didn't figure offsetting tax loss carryforward, brokerage fees, commissions, and TVM.
LOL, fair enough. But I assume then you didn't factor repair costs on the FD? And there WILL be repair costs over routine maintenance. Which unfortunately as time goes on, like (hopefully) stocks, trends upward.
For something to be a solid investment it needs to see gains greater than the stock market. I would say a barely acceptable investment increases at minimum 7%, otherwise I would be better putting the $ in an index fund.
Cars are not investments. Occasionally cars value may go up, sometimes double in value in a few short years, but you are going to be hard pressed to time that and beat the stock market in return on investment. At best you are trying to minimize loss on a play thing, not an investment especially after you tally up running costs like tires/brakes/etc. not to mention repairs for unscheduled failures.
The RX7 is at worst at the bottom of its depreciation curve. Low mileage collector quality examples have seen great gains in recent years, but those are few and far between, plus the appreciation curve may have already spiked and fallen off. There isn’t a guarantee they will continue to climb at rate superior to the stock market, and then the longer you hold onto something that has flattened out in appreciation the more you lose out on having your $ somewhere else it could actually be earning.
If you like an RX7 buy it, drive it, and enjoy it.
If you want investments get an index fund from Fidelity.
You can buy one yourself from Japan for under 10k shipped to your nearest port. If you don't mind dealing with the paper work of getting it titled. But as said before jdm cars will always be worth less than a us market one.
Check ebay and craigslist, the are jdm ones for 12-15k
You can buy one yourself from Japan for under 10k shipped to your nearest port. If you don't mind dealing with the paper work of getting it titled. But as said before jdm cars will always be worth less than a us market one.
Check ebay and craigslist, the are jdm ones for 12-15k
This is one of the reasons that JDM cars are worth so much less than USDM is because people are importing the ones that are under $10k landed.....
To be landed for under $10k means you paid around $5k at auction. The ones in that price range are parts cars or rollers in my opinion. A reasonable FD at auction in Japan will at least be in the $10k-$15k range, making it $15k - $20k landed in the USA. If you want a nice low mileage or late year (1999+) they are >$20k plus shipping.
Until people stop importing crap boxes the JDM cars will continue to be seen as inferior. Which is unfortunate as that is what the USA will generally get thanks to your 25 year import law. However here in Canada we are getting low mileage Spirit R cars, these will hold their value and I believe will eventually be worth more than the USDM cars......
If I had invest in an RX7 it would be in a low mileage Spirit R Type A in Titanium Grey. These rare examples in my opinion will fetch top dollar in the future with worldwide collectors.
But as discussed above, if i am investing - it will not be in a car!
Last edited by FEED AFFLUX v5; 05-06-18 at 10:35 AM.
Perhaps ironically, the guys who seem to have made some money locally are kids who bought local 92 JDMs, drove them for a few months and flipped them for $5,000 to 8,000 over their purchase price. Such has been the mark-up for becoming US "legal". However, as the "legal premium" seems to be rolling back into Japan, this "profit" opportunity wave may have already dissipated on the beach.
Last edited by Redbul; 05-06-18 at 11:03 AM.
Reason: Punctutaion
04-12-18, 04:09 PM
They also built way less of them than the RX7.
The young and wasteless