Hackbarthja

As the title states, I have looked all over this and other forums for any sort of clue as to what is going on...why my car wont start.

Let me start with a little history...

I picked the car up about a month ago, a 1988 10th AE, ran moderately. We performed a compression test and the results indicated a rebuild was in it's future, so that's exactly what we did. We disassembled the motor carefully, labeling all the nuts and bolts in baggies (which worked out great by the way) and did some cleaning. In the mean-time I removed and shipped off my ECU to Digital Tuning for an Rtek 1.8 upgrade.

I also purchased myself a short list of items;

720cc injectors (Low impedance)
RA Classic Apex seals
Solid corner seals
Solid Motor Mounts
Manual Boost Controller
Tial 50mm BOV
JDM Intercooler
AEM A/F and boost gauges
Series 5 tail lights
And some other little odds and ends

We reassembled the motor, and put it back in. Took a little bit to fire up but it did and immediately rev'd to 4,000RPM's and just sat there for about 10 seconds. It dropped RPM's and then just died out. At that point it was about 12:30 at night so we called it a day with smiles on our faces.

The next day, knowing it was running, we decided to work on the idle issue, at the same time wire in the 10ohm 10watt resistors for the injectors. While the upper intake was off we deleted the 'rats nest' and ran new fuel and vacuum lines, also capping off the un-used vacuum locations. Finished the job there and was ready to fire it up.....nothing...we had spark, fuel, and compression. Flood cleared it and tried again, still nothing. This happened a few times before we pulled the plugs and found them saturated. Cleaned them up and tried again, this time going from Key off to Start without hesitation at the On/Accessory position. It really wanted to start, but something wasn't letting it, which brings me to the list of checks we have performed over the past 3 days..

Checked all clips in the wiring harness
Checked all vacuum lines and caps
Has strong spark from all 4 plugs
All 4 wires are in solid condition, along with the coil packs
Timing is spot on
Fuel pump is operational
MAF working properly


We noticed today too that there was a Fuel Cut Defender on the car, so we removed it, since the Rtek 1.8 includes this function. Tried again, still nothing...tried push starting it, and still nothing. My friend sprayed brake cleaner into the intake, then I cranked it over....again nothing, BUT this time it was much closer to actually starting...

So far we know...it's flooding, but why? It has spark, it has compression, and it has plenty of fuel delivery. Too much maybe? I don't know, all I know is that we have gotten to the point of mass frustration and are now asking for help from all you experts out there that may or may not have dealt with a similar situation...

If I need to make a video of what's going on I will, but for now I'm hoping that we can all figure this out together. I feel as though once it starts and runs for a while it'll be fine...

S.O.S.

-Jared

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I know my car just would NOT start because of doused plugs.
I deflooded that engine more times than I can shake a stick at it,but it would not fire up.

Finally,I tried "starting fluid".I sprayed it in a vacuum hose and put the hose back on(Beats taking the intake elbow off or spraying the **** out of the filter) and RRRR,..BOOM!..Success!

The Trick too is to get ALL the fuel out,and that means disconnecting the fuel supply(EGI fuse and IF you have to the Fuel pump fuse too).
Use a couple shots of oil in the housings(via the spark plug holes) and then roll the engine over BEFORE You install the clean plugs.

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

We've been pulling the plugs, pulling the fuse and cranking it over until all the gas stops misting out of the engine. We promise it is deflooded. My next thought might be to start checking some ground wires and last but no least, installing the OEM chips back in the ECU and replacing the Rtek ones just to eliminate that as a possible issue

Evil Aviator

Doesn't the Rtek 1.8 has a S5-style flood clear function?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

The Rtek may have a flood clear but the thing is,is that the engine is still soaked in gas and has lost compression from being soaked in fuel.
The Oil will put a thing film on the housings and help bring the compression back up.
Just rolling it over til no gas mist comes out is not really quite enough.There is Still gas in there to make the engine lose the compression needed to start it.
It won't cause you any harm to at least try it.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

I agree with styx, motor oil or MMO that motor, put some in, turn it over by hand till you hear the whoosh, than do it again. Also, while rolling it over without the plugs, do the whooshs sound like they are the same? One weaker than the other? I understand you just rebuilt it, but, there have been alot of threads on here that as soon as some people rebuilt their engine and started it, they had to remove it again, so prepare yourself for that also

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

All whooshes sound just as equally strong as the others. We will try adding some oil. Maybe like a teaspoon of ATF?

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

And yes, the Rtek 1.8 does have the flood clear option. The odd thing is, the time that it sounds like it wants to fire most is when you flood clear it. It is cranking fast and on the verge of firing but when you pull the fuse and crank it, it cranks slow with no hope at all. Is the flood clear function not actually cutting all the fuel to the injectors and maybe its leaning out and wanting to start?

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Thats what a gas washed engine does, it spins over faster because it can't build compression because gas is thinner and gets between all the moving parts and acts like a thin film of teflon

And i wouldn't use ATF, motor oil is cheaper

Take the EGI fuse out, pedal to floor, roll then engine over until you hear it "slow down" becausr than you know its starting to build compression, take the plugs out, clean them, than put oil in the leading plug holes and roll the motor over by hand and keep adding a little oil until your sure all 6 rotor faces have oil in them. Reinstall plugs, replace egi fuse, and give it a good shot of starting fluid, than try and fire her up. You may ve to help it with the throttle, the engine will probably need more air to help combust the oil with the gas

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

I feel like ATF is too thin anyways, but I got that from the FAQ for FC's. To me, gear oil seems to be a better option since its thick enough to actually give everything a good coating, but it probably won't combust well

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Just use regular motor oil..it's there,it's cheap..it doesn't care.
I take about a Milkshake straw load(it was handy..ok?..lol!) and dump it in the leading plug hole,then rotate the engine with a 19mm socket and ratchet(main pulley) by 120 degrees...put another load in..rotate..put another load in..
then spin the engine by the starter about 5 seconds.

ATF is good for unsticking seals,but Hey,if you don't have to use it, then all the better,

lduley

iTrader: (1)

No it won't, honestly your over thinking the whole thing. Try what we've said, than let us know

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

Awesome. That straw tip is awesome because ive been figuring out how i want to get oil in there. Thanks for the help and hopefully we will have some results in a bit

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

When you pull the EGI,what happens is that the fuel is CUT,along with spark.
That is WHY the engine now sounds like it is slower.The engine is washing away fuel and the compression is trying to get back up..BUT the gas is still IN there and not allowing the Apex seals to seal properly and give it "100% Compression".
So if you have Washed out internals,it will NOT start.
That is what the oil does.It mixes with the gas too,so it will coat the internals,and any excess will get scraped up by the seals and tossed out the exhaust.

NOTE: you may notice once you get started that the turbo will glow or smoke.That would be normal for a severely flooded engine.

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

So explain this: If the "fuel cut" function on the Rtek actually cuts fuel, then how come when the engine is flat footed to "flood clear", it turns faster than when I pull the fuse. It should be the same, correct? If that is the case, then something may be messed up with the Rtek, correct?

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

So I made a few video's of what is going on. It fired once after using the oil trick but hasn't since then even after we repeated the process.


This is after fresh plug cleaning, 10w-40 oil in the housings and jump starting from my RX-8 to ensure that is cranking fast enough:

This is immediately afterwards using the "flood clear" on the Rtek just to hear how fast it cranks:

And finally, this is with a switch that the previous owner installed to flood clear it. I turn the switch off and it cranks noticeably slower, as it should:

Shouldn't the flood clear with the Rtek crank the same as turning off the fuel pump?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

use oil to coat the chambers as misterstyx69 said and why don't you guys try actually using different plugs the next time you empty the chambers?

i'm not familiar with the Rtek aside from knowing what it is. however, isn't it something that you have to tune? does it use factory parameters as a baseline? i'm only asking because from the original post, the car has never actually run with it - aside from the first fire (10 seconds). i'm just trying to get a sense of how much of a wildcard it is to your plight.

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

This is the stage 1 Rtek that you do not tune, it just makes adjustments to the factory ECU. We are on our second set of plugs and keep checking them for strong, positive spark each time they are pulled. And again, we are pouring a small amount of oil inside the chambers each time the plugs come out

Evil Aviator

The voltmeter should read just under 12 when cranking.

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

^^^ Are you saying this for the fuel pump voltage?

Evil Aviator

I'm just saying that your battery looks dead.

mcoughlin

iTrader: (2)

This doesn't have a battery gauge. It's got boost, temp, fuel and oil pressure. I've got it running. The injector wires were crossed. it is very lean below 2 grand and doesnt really want to idle yet, but above that the AFR's aren't bad

Hackbarthja

UPDATE!

She'said alive! ^.^

Turns out when we were plugging the wire harness back in we switched a couple of the injector wires.....new issue though. Now it starts to lean out under 2000rpms and will stall out. But it runs great under boost. I will try and upload the video of driving it so you all can see what we mean.

Hackbarthja

Here is the video. We flood cleared it a couple times and kept trying to start it. ..nothing..

RX7 Starting:
http://youtu.be/4oB6W37Ipng

satch

iTrader: (1)

How specifically were the injector wires crossed?