gangrene

Ive read over and over the build thread on the auto manual swap. But now our 91 vert wont crank. Ignition worked before the swap and ive checked fuses. Starter checked out fine. Its a s4 drivetrain in an s5. I really have no idea where to start troubleshooting, i truly am terrible at looking at wiring diagrams, have a multimeter, but not sure how to use it. In need of some help before i throw a whench through the windshield(no worries, its cracked already).

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

one thing comes to mind.
Bypass the safety neutral switch.??

Don Nguyen

I guess first thing you'll want to do is check if the start wires are getting power.

-Don

tbenton

Glad I found this current thread!

I have had an '88 RX7 Vert since she was born...my 4th RX. Car is Red and in close to perfect condition; always garaged with 166K. Nothing except battery and a belt or two has ever been replaced in engine compartment. When the old battery died in early Jan I got a RRRR then rrrrrr and then nothing as it tried to turn over and thats the only battery dying sound I am familiar with. This time there was only a clicking sound drivers side near the firewall. Lights worked fine. In the afternoon I checked the battery terminal connections and tried again and this time no click..no nothing. I turned on the lights and they didn't come on immediately and were dimmer.

We are going to start with checking voltage of new battery and maybe it has bad cell. If not we move on to alternator and starter. Hard to check alternator when you can't start the darn car...grrrr. I hope its the battery but if we have to go further I hate to have to ask this but where is the starter/solenoid on this car? I cannot find a diagram anywhere. Husband works on his F150 and has replaced starter more than once but other than oil change and battery he has not had the need to check other parts in my RX so I am being proactive before we go at this over the weekend.

Help and thanks
Terri

gangrene

Neutral switch? Ive heard of such a thing... just dont know where to look. On the trans. There are two green wires that have white clips that actually connect together if you tried, and another set of blue wires on one black connector. These guys arent attached to anything. I ran one red wire thru shift hole and think its connected to the four or six pin connector, to whichever pin the black wire(automatic shifter that connects to the thingy that the shifter hits in park.) It is equipped with theft and i tried to use a jumper wire from the thick black/blue to the thick black/green wire on the black relay nect to the TC.Nothing. when the key is turned to start there is a click noise inside the other "relay" next to it and again when its turned off. I also took the three wire white clip for the trans, wired the two larger wires together on bottom and ran the smaller wire to the other red on the trans. I have done so much research on this site and im goin crazy! So my question now is how to test the starter if its getting power? Is it simply touching the red prong of the multimeter to the tab where tue red/black wite

gangrene

Sorry, the red/black wire attaches? Black to ground and read with ignition in start? Multimeter on volts? Yes, i have never used one before, forgive my ignorance. I also tried to jump the thick green wire to positive post and got nothing either. Guess i should check the positive lead to starter as well. If i get no reading, what to check then? Ive read about the x-09 plug and took the TC out and dont see where it is and what it connects to, the red/black wire to starter selenoid just goes into the main harness. I want to take a second to thank you guys above for your input, ive waited almost a week for a response, and my patience with this nice ride is wearing thin...

satch

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to assume you have the Starter Cut Relay ( has but one 4 wire plug and located next to the Main Relay). W/key to start check to see if the Black/Blue wire has voltage or not.

If the wire does have voltage w/key to start then isolate/identify the thicker of the two Black/Green wires in this 4 wire plug and jumper the thicker B/G wire to the Black/Blue wire and w/key to start does the starter turn over?

Black/Green is mated to Black/Red at the Inhibitor Switch.

gangrene

Yes, i have tried to jumper the wire already and nothing. But i will check for voltage when i get a minute..I also want to include that i have rechecked engine grounds(unless i have overlooked one, transmission ground passenger side, starter ground on long starter bolt, engine ground on intake, small black square ground wire)

satch

iTrader: (1)

And w/key to on do the wipers or turn signals work? If they don't then the ignition switch is not being powered which would explain why the starter is not turning over. So, if you check for voltage on the Black/Blue wire at the Starter Cut Relay w/key to start and there is no voltage and neither the wipers or turn signals work then you know the ignition switch is not powered up properly.

gangrene

Starter is located on drivers side of transmission, starter selenoid is what the positive leads are connected to. Good luck.

gangrene

Ok, i just bought a nice digital multimeter since my analog one is junk. So i guess im testing current at the selenoid with the key on start. Do i disconnect the wire from selenoid and jump the connection with my multimeter, or simply touch the wire with the probe and ground the black wire on the meter? Is this the same way i test the black/blue wire on the starter kill relay? Im so ready to troubleshoot i can barely contain myself...

satch

iTrader: (1)

The relay is not a solenoid to begin with. Walk over to your car battery w/the multimeter set to DC volts. Place the Red meter lead on the positive battery terminal and the Black meter lead to the negative battery lead and the meter ought to read 12 volts or so. When you measure the voltage at the relay on the Black/Blue wire w/key to start and the Red meter lead goes to the wire (plug can be connected to relay). The Black meter lead goes to a ground like the negative battery terminal or the alternator housing.

If you jumper two wires you use a wire itself to bridge the two wires and not use a meter to bridge the terminals.

gangrene

Sorry, i meant selenoid as in starter selenoid. And believe me when i say that ive spent the whole day yesterday researching how to use a multimeter, and how to test what im having issues with. Please dont think im just adding my replies and waiting for an answer. I seem to understand this forum doesnt want to just give answers. They want you to research and learn about your car. My wipers guages and everything works. I get a click on the relay next to the starter kill relay, but thats all. Last night i even took all my grounds loose, cleaned them odf, and tried again without sucess. My battery reads 10 volts right now but i have also had jumper cables on it without any luck either.

gangrene

So, my ignition switch is good, im going to assume from videos ive watched to test voltage to starter selenoid i need to unplug the selenoid wire, insert the red probe into the black clip, black probe to battery negative, ignition to start and check voltage. If no voltage is there then the issue is probably neutral safety switch or the starter kill relay. I will try to get readings on both places and post when i do. Thank you for your patience during all this.... and yes, jumper wire used not probe wires.

satch

iTrader: (1)

But what did the Black/Blue wire read w/key to start at the Starter Cut Relay? The Inhibitor Switch is located after the Starter Cut Relay so it is not the cause of the problem at that relay. Problem should be rather quick to diagnose but ............?

gangrene

Took a minute to get another set of hands. At the battery i had -10V with positive probe on positive. At the black/blue wire to neg post was -9V, at red/black wire on starter sel. Was -1.6v. I must remind u that this was a manual swap from an s4. The other wires on the manual tranny arent connected to anythi g except the red wires. One thru shifter hole to four prong harness auto gear selector was hooked to, the other ran to the old auto white three wire harness. Bottom wires are joined and the small wire to red. No switches on manual pedal since theres nothing to connect them to. What are the two green wires and blue wires on one connector for(on manual tranny)? They really dont have to go to anything do they? Also the two connectors to the auto cpu are disconnected. This has to be very simple to fix, either bypass all the b.s. and run a wire directly to starter or something.

gangrene

Failed to check voltage from positive lead to starter.... guess i need to do that as well? Didnt due to no voltage(well neg. Voltage) at selenoid on starter.....

satch

iTrader: (1)

You must have your meter probes mixed up to get a negative voltage since there is no such thing. Again, the Red meter lead goes to the wire you are measuring voltage from and the Black meter lead goes to a ground source. When you mix up the probes the voltage stays the same but the reading will show as negative. So the Black/Blue wires tests out okay at the Starter Cut Relay. Next thing to check would be the thicker Black/Green wire at the relay and it should also have voltage w/key to start. Does it?


The Black/Red wire at the Starter solenoid runs to the plug which connects to the Inhibitor Switch. So, besides the B/R wire there is also a Black/Green wire in the same plug that comes from the Starter Cut Relay, thus these two wires need to be bridged together.

gangrene

Will check asap, and i swear the probes are correct and the battery is connected correct as well. I really appreciate your quick responses and patience. When i get some help here i will check.

gangrene

Ok, ok, so my four year old switched the probes... no wonder..i will get my daughter to flip the key, if she can strip my front end apart on my truck and pack bearings, she can turn a key...not bad for a seven year old...you should see her with an air rifle....

gangrene

Black green wire reads 1.4v battery now reading 9v... better give it a charge tonight.

satch

iTrader: (1)

If the B/G wire reads 1.4 volts then its probably because the alarm is not sending the proper signal to the relay to allow the voltage on the Black/Blue wire to pass on to the B/G wire. Remember, there are two B/G wires in the relay. The one you should be focusing on is the thicker gauged B/G wire and not the thinner gauged B/G wire. If you are correctly measuring the proper B/G wire then you can effectively bypass this relay by jumpering the Black/Blue terminal to the Black/Green terminal. If the jumpering is good then the B/G wire should have voltage w/key to start. This wire then runs to the Inhibitor plug.

gangrene

You are fast! Then perhaps i should cut the wires under the harness and join them? Maybe my jumper wire wasnt making a good connection. I will give it a go and get back to ya, and ditch the starter relay

gangrene

Jumped black/blue, black/grn and no luck

satch

iTrader: (1)

Black/Green runs to the Inhibitor plug. There's a plug down in the transmission area w/that wire in it along w/the Black/Red wire which runs to the starter, plus another wire is in this particular plug. So, both the B/G and B/R wires lead to it.

This might help you.

Your meter has a setting called "continuity." W/the meter set to continuity, place both meter leads together firmly. The meter should ring out audibly speaking. So, once you learned how to figure that out then you could place one meter lead for example wedged against the B/G wire from the back of the plug so it's snug and you can leave your hands free to roam elsewhere w/the other meter lead in search for the other end of the B/G wire. When you place the other meter lead against a wire which can possibly be the other end of the B/G wire then the meter will ring out and you will then know if you have identified the proper wire or not. You always do a continuity test w/no key in the ignition.