To have 400 whp for Street FD
09-02-13, 10:21 PM
#1
To have 400 whp for Street FD
Hi, I have 93 FD R1, fully stock with 5000 miles on Rebuilt Transmission, Turbos, Suspensions, Engine from Mazda Delaer with new APEX.
My goal is to have 400 whp street fd with stock twin turbos.
From my last thread, I am not having Turbo Timer.
1. For the first, I need coilovers. I will dump my new suspensions, but which coilovers. Stance, Buddy Club, Tein, or Apexi???
2. Rims and Tires Sizes. Just go with stock? 17 or 18? What Size of tires?
3. Air intake system. I will do my own piping with k&ns on those. Good or any other recomendation for Greddy, HKS, Apexi?
4. Turbo manifold, downpipings, catback exhaust system. Can I trust ebay brand? They run under $500. If the ebay brand is not the one, how about use those pipes and have Tanabe axle back or HKS axle back?
5. BOV. What brand is the best? I have HKS Super SQ before with my 2g Eclipse. It was awsome, but the sound pitch was too high.
6. Do I need wastgate?
7. Radiator. Koyo N Flo.
8. Intercooler. SMIC or FMIC? Do I have to relocate the battrey for FMIC? Do I better relocate the battery anyway to have better performance?
With all those mods, can I get 400 whp?
Please, advise me. Thanks!!!
My goal is to have 400 whp street fd with stock twin turbos.
From my last thread, I am not having Turbo Timer.
1. For the first, I need coilovers. I will dump my new suspensions, but which coilovers. Stance, Buddy Club, Tein, or Apexi???
2. Rims and Tires Sizes. Just go with stock? 17 or 18? What Size of tires?
3. Air intake system. I will do my own piping with k&ns on those. Good or any other recomendation for Greddy, HKS, Apexi?
4. Turbo manifold, downpipings, catback exhaust system. Can I trust ebay brand? They run under $500. If the ebay brand is not the one, how about use those pipes and have Tanabe axle back or HKS axle back?
5. BOV. What brand is the best? I have HKS Super SQ before with my 2g Eclipse. It was awsome, but the sound pitch was too high.
6. Do I need wastgate?
7. Radiator. Koyo N Flo.
8. Intercooler. SMIC or FMIC? Do I have to relocate the battrey for FMIC? Do I better relocate the battery anyway to have better performance?
With all those mods, can I get 400 whp?
Please, advise me. Thanks!!!
09-03-13, 07:21 AM
#2
Unlikely, but IF your car is the rare one whose stock pre-cat/downpipe has not been changed out for a downpipe already, this should be your first (and probably only) modification during the first year IMO. That pre-cat has a track record of falling apart and plugging the main cat, which can damage the engine.
No. You have a wastegate, it's integral and internal on the stock twins.
That's a good choice. Fluidyne is also popular and there are other good choices out there. Know that Fluidyne is ~ 50% larger than stock and Koyo ~ 100% larger. Larger is NOT automatically better and the larger you go, the more fitment issues are typically encountered. A search in the 3rd. Gen. section will be your friend here too.
No. The ONLY way you're going to make 400 whp on stock twins is by turning up the boost...alot. That will require fuel mods...bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump etc., ignition modifications, a standalone ECU and professional tuning. Those things will cost and you can't go cheap. Also know that to produce the required boost levels the twins will be out of they're efficiency range and their life span will be shortened.
09-04-13, 06:59 AM
#3
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: adelaide
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree there is a massive difference between cost and price, but not to say the most expensive things are the best, look around do some research is the best advice you will receive....
09-04-13, 01:14 PM
#5
Your first goal should be to complete baseline maintenance and learn about the car...while otherwise leaving the car alone. Wealth of information in the 3rd Gen. FAQs/stickys and searchs. Performance modification mistakes are expensive and will quickly sour you on the car. It's ugly and no fun sitting on jack stands.
This really depends on the car's use and subjective after that. There's an entire section devoted to tires/wheels/suspension here.
OEM wheels are light and strong (as long as they're the reinforced versions made after 92). But they're dated by being 16 X 8. Stock tire size was 225/50/16. Many of us ran 245/45/16's which fit fine, gave a little better look and contact and kept the speedometer close. But that's largely an obsolete tire size now. Last I looked 245/45/16 was available only in R compounds. My PERSONAL recommendation is 17" wheels. An updated look, but not radical and you'll tend to keep enough sidewall for the street. I think anything over 18" looks silly.
IMO, you should choose the intake system at the same time as your intercooler. Regardless, it is best to source ambient air from the nose of the car (not sucking hot air from under the hood) and w/o scavanging it from the IC duct.
Once you learn about the car, you'll know that the stock twins require the stock manifold. There are no other choices. Downpipes should be chosen for quality and a track record with the hotter rotary exhaust. They should also be heat-coated or wrapped before install. Search for more info, but I'll give you a hint....The chinese pipes off Ebay is not probably in the mix. PRICE and COST are two different things. Think about that.
Unlikely, but IF your car is the rare one whose stock pre-cat/downpipe has not been changed out for a downpipe already, this should be your first (and probably only) modification during the first year IMO. That pre-cat has a track record of falling apart and plugging the main cat, which can damage the engine.
Sound is subjective and an aftermarket BOV adds nothing to performance other than that. You already have one btw...it just vents into the stock airbox and is silent. Vented to atmosphere, I think a BOV's sound also varies with boost levels. The same valve might sound different at 10 psi than it does at 14 psi.
No. You have a wastegate, it's integral and internal on the stock twins.
That's a good choice. Fluidyne is also popular and there are other good choices out there. Know that Fluidyne is ~ 50% larger than stock and Koyo ~ 100% larger. Larger is NOT automatically better and the larger you go, the more fitment issues are typically encountered. A search in the 3rd. Gen. section will be your friend here too.
Largely a decision based on the use of the car. IMO a FMIC is warranted only if the car will be limited to track use. There are aftermarket SMIC's out there that will give decent IAT's w/o all the issues and expense of a FMIC. There is also 'V' mount (VMIC) choices too which are excellent...just expensive and require more fabbing. Battery relocation for a streeted car is also not desirable IMO. Again...search.
No. The ONLY way you're going to make 400 whp on stock twins is by turning up the boost...alot. That will require fuel mods...bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump etc., ignition modifications, a standalone ECU and professional tuning. Those things will cost and you can't go cheap. Also know that to produce the required boost levels the twins will be out of they're efficiency range and their life span will be shortened.
This really depends on the car's use and subjective after that. There's an entire section devoted to tires/wheels/suspension here.
OEM wheels are light and strong (as long as they're the reinforced versions made after 92). But they're dated by being 16 X 8. Stock tire size was 225/50/16. Many of us ran 245/45/16's which fit fine, gave a little better look and contact and kept the speedometer close. But that's largely an obsolete tire size now. Last I looked 245/45/16 was available only in R compounds. My PERSONAL recommendation is 17" wheels. An updated look, but not radical and you'll tend to keep enough sidewall for the street. I think anything over 18" looks silly.
IMO, you should choose the intake system at the same time as your intercooler. Regardless, it is best to source ambient air from the nose of the car (not sucking hot air from under the hood) and w/o scavanging it from the IC duct.
Once you learn about the car, you'll know that the stock twins require the stock manifold. There are no other choices. Downpipes should be chosen for quality and a track record with the hotter rotary exhaust. They should also be heat-coated or wrapped before install. Search for more info, but I'll give you a hint....The chinese pipes off Ebay is not probably in the mix. PRICE and COST are two different things. Think about that.
Unlikely, but IF your car is the rare one whose stock pre-cat/downpipe has not been changed out for a downpipe already, this should be your first (and probably only) modification during the first year IMO. That pre-cat has a track record of falling apart and plugging the main cat, which can damage the engine.
Sound is subjective and an aftermarket BOV adds nothing to performance other than that. You already have one btw...it just vents into the stock airbox and is silent. Vented to atmosphere, I think a BOV's sound also varies with boost levels. The same valve might sound different at 10 psi than it does at 14 psi.
No. You have a wastegate, it's integral and internal on the stock twins.
That's a good choice. Fluidyne is also popular and there are other good choices out there. Know that Fluidyne is ~ 50% larger than stock and Koyo ~ 100% larger. Larger is NOT automatically better and the larger you go, the more fitment issues are typically encountered. A search in the 3rd. Gen. section will be your friend here too.
Largely a decision based on the use of the car. IMO a FMIC is warranted only if the car will be limited to track use. There are aftermarket SMIC's out there that will give decent IAT's w/o all the issues and expense of a FMIC. There is also 'V' mount (VMIC) choices too which are excellent...just expensive and require more fabbing. Battery relocation for a streeted car is also not desirable IMO. Again...search.
No. The ONLY way you're going to make 400 whp on stock twins is by turning up the boost...alot. That will require fuel mods...bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump etc., ignition modifications, a standalone ECU and professional tuning. Those things will cost and you can't go cheap. Also know that to produce the required boost levels the twins will be out of they're efficiency range and their life span will be shortened.
Thank you, sir!!!
You are my wikipedia,,,,,, Thanks, again!!!
Trending Topics
09-05-13, 01:15 PM
#8
first things first, your power goals. you won't be having a reliable 400whp from the stock twins, they simply won't last long even if you get them there(and definitely not if you plan on keeping them sequential, most people never even see 400 even with everything ideal).
you'd either need a single turbo or lower your power goal. most people get 325-350 with decent success for a while on stock twins, those who push to 400 and beyond rarely get a year out of them before the turbo starts to eat it's own ***.
for the ECU you can do better than the powerFC now, i would probably look at the adaptronic PnP with it's self tune capabilities for about the same price.
you'd either need a single turbo or lower your power goal. most people get 325-350 with decent success for a while on stock twins, those who push to 400 and beyond rarely get a year out of them before the turbo starts to eat it's own ***.
for the ECU you can do better than the powerFC now, i would probably look at the adaptronic PnP with it's self tune capabilities for about the same price.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-05-13 at 01:20 PM.
09-05-13, 06:12 PM
#10
Cooling means, koyo n-flo and inter cooler? Thanks for remind me about the basic again. I was about to do crazy weekend shopping, kk. Also on the forum, there is a great debate about radiator. Can you please recommend me a radiator and inter cooler for my 93 r1 with stock twins and oil coolers? Some member says that i do not have to get new radiator if oem is working. Can you also recommend me a bov, dp, mid pipe or fast cat? Also, i will keep the location for oem battery. Thanks, always. With all your helps, i better change my fd color from red to blue,,,,,,
09-05-13, 07:34 PM
#11
Modding can become quite expensive if you do not have a plan set aside. Personally, I enjoy cruising in my car rather than going fast. I've done the fast thing in my old DSM....tends to make you look like an *** on the street...not to mention get you into trouble.
With that being said, maintenance is crucial. Make sure you have a healthy platform before you decide to mod. Fuel upgrades are paramount along with some sort of engine management.
Get an aftermarket coolant temp gauge if you don't already have one...also a boost gauge.
Look into possibly picking up a set of BNR Stage III turbos. Allows you to retain a stock look while making some decent power. Remember these cars are light. 400hp will feel a lot different in this car than say a mustang.
Personally, I would only do one mod at a time. That way if something messes up you know exactly where to look. If all checks out, move to the next mod.
The order I would go is: Maintenance (This includes checking your fluids, plugs, wires, making sure there are no leaks, replacing your vacuum hoses if they need replacing), Downpipe, Exhaust, Intake (search the cheap air box mod on here.), Manual boost controller to keep it from spiking past stock levels (11-12 psi is fine, but I wouldn't go any higher), 99 spec y pipe, M2 Medium SMIC or equivalant, Greddy elbow and a piping kit of some sort, air pump delete pulley (most aren't functional anymore and its one less thing to break), Fuel/ignition mods (fuel pump, Fuel filter, AFPR, Injectors, HKS Twin Power), APEXI Power FC/commander (Get this the same time you decide to do your fuel upgrades as this is when you will finally be able to tune it for power)
The tricky part is once you get this far, OEM components start to deteriorate. IE the bushings and motor mounts. You might opt to going to stiffer or solid mounts. Getting braces are also not a bad idea.
Biggest thing is setting a plan and sticking to it. A sudden change WILL be extremely costly and you will end up creating a part-out thread.
With that being said, maintenance is crucial. Make sure you have a healthy platform before you decide to mod. Fuel upgrades are paramount along with some sort of engine management.
Get an aftermarket coolant temp gauge if you don't already have one...also a boost gauge.
Look into possibly picking up a set of BNR Stage III turbos. Allows you to retain a stock look while making some decent power. Remember these cars are light. 400hp will feel a lot different in this car than say a mustang.
Personally, I would only do one mod at a time. That way if something messes up you know exactly where to look. If all checks out, move to the next mod.
The order I would go is: Maintenance (This includes checking your fluids, plugs, wires, making sure there are no leaks, replacing your vacuum hoses if they need replacing), Downpipe, Exhaust, Intake (search the cheap air box mod on here.), Manual boost controller to keep it from spiking past stock levels (11-12 psi is fine, but I wouldn't go any higher), 99 spec y pipe, M2 Medium SMIC or equivalant, Greddy elbow and a piping kit of some sort, air pump delete pulley (most aren't functional anymore and its one less thing to break), Fuel/ignition mods (fuel pump, Fuel filter, AFPR, Injectors, HKS Twin Power), APEXI Power FC/commander (Get this the same time you decide to do your fuel upgrades as this is when you will finally be able to tune it for power)
The tricky part is once you get this far, OEM components start to deteriorate. IE the bushings and motor mounts. You might opt to going to stiffer or solid mounts. Getting braces are also not a bad idea.
Biggest thing is setting a plan and sticking to it. A sudden change WILL be extremely costly and you will end up creating a part-out thread.
Last edited by TonySeagle; 09-05-13 at 07:36 PM.
09-06-13, 08:14 AM
#12
And intercoolers are to cool the intake air, they do virtually nothing for engine cooling.
09-08-13, 03:25 AM
#13
Cooling means an efficient all-metal radiator, aluminum AST, sound coolant hoses...especially the turbo coolant lines. Cooling means downloading a copy of the Factory Service Manual from the 3rd Gen. Stickys and learning how to properly flush the system with fresh coolant and as much distilled water to coolant as you can safely get away with in your climate...and burping the system to purge any air left behind by the change. Cooling means making sure you have good (.9 bar) caps on the system, and an aftermarket temperature gauge installed since the factory gauge is worse than worthless. Cooling also means searching and reading up on other worthwhile cooling mods like changing out the OEM fan thermoswitch for an S5 version to lower the threshold temperature for the fans to kick on from 108 C. (226 F.) to 95 C. (203 F.), or getting inexpensive upholstery foam and plugging all the small gaps around the radiator face. Cooling means making sure you have a sound belly-pan in place, and cleaning and straightening the fins on the oil coolers.
And intercoolers are to cool the intake air, they do virtually nothing for engine cooling.
And intercoolers are to cool the intake air, they do virtually nothing for engine cooling.
1. I will not bypass the ast, but i will have aluminum ast.
2. I will get the funnel type intakes and do custom boxing with hose.
3. I will go with n-flo radiator, even if there are few fitment issues.
4. Smic.
5. Boost and water temp. Gauges, i will go with analog. Also, 15 psi one for the boost.
My question is;
Do i need exhaust temp. Gauge?
What brand are you recommending for the gauges? What mount position? Pilar or center speaker?
What brand dp?
Pfc after those mod or i do not really need one?
Btw, i will do the proper fill up for the coolant tomorrow.
Thanks!
09-08-13, 08:48 AM
#14
Retired Moderator, RIP
iTrader: (142)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 0
Received 131 Likes
on
114 Posts
You'll need more than a 15psi Boost gauge..you'll be pinning that before you know it.
If you go to a PFC then it is recommended to have a Wideband,and you do not necessarily need a EGT gauge.Also recommended that you get a TUNE,and if you can't do(no offense to your capability) that then find someone that can.
Just replacing parts on this car(like free flowing exhaust) can alter the tune of it and it can be Detrimental if you do not compensate for it.
Gauge pod?,wherever you feel comfortable with the gauges.You are driving the car so you will be looking at them.
If you go to a PFC then it is recommended to have a Wideband,and you do not necessarily need a EGT gauge.Also recommended that you get a TUNE,and if you can't do(no offense to your capability) that then find someone that can.
Just replacing parts on this car(like free flowing exhaust) can alter the tune of it and it can be Detrimental if you do not compensate for it.
Gauge pod?,wherever you feel comfortable with the gauges.You are driving the car so you will be looking at them.
09-09-13, 09:56 PM
#15
Ok. I will lower my goal to under 400, but please give me am approval of more than 300,,,,,,
1.The suspension on the car were not new, so i will go with apexi coilovers. 2.downpipe and cat back. 3. Boost (30 psi)and temp. Gauges on piller. 4. Ast tank. 5. Air intakes with custom air box. 6. New vacumm hoses. 7. Koyo n-flo. 8. Smic with custom air guide. 9. Fast cat. 10. Pfc.
What do you guys think? What kind of hp will i achieve? Are the orders right? Any brand are you recommending?
Of course, everything will be done after under body coating and paint job.
1.The suspension on the car were not new, so i will go with apexi coilovers. 2.downpipe and cat back. 3. Boost (30 psi)and temp. Gauges on piller. 4. Ast tank. 5. Air intakes with custom air box. 6. New vacumm hoses. 7. Koyo n-flo. 8. Smic with custom air guide. 9. Fast cat. 10. Pfc.
What do you guys think? What kind of hp will i achieve? Are the orders right? Any brand are you recommending?
Of course, everything will be done after under body coating and paint job.
09-10-13, 09:38 AM
#16
probably about 300whp with that and a decent tune is about the best you could hope for with the cat and SMIC with sequential twins.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
09-10-13, 02:56 PM
#17
probably about 300whp with that and a decent tune is about the best you could hope for with the cat and SMIC with sequential twins.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
09-16-13, 10:22 AM
#20
Full Member
probably about 300whp with that and a decent tune is about the best you could hope for with the cat and SMIC with sequential twins.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
a bigger intercooler and totally free flowing exhaust could get you to around 325 sequential or about 350 with some internal turbo modifications/non sequential.
Would this be with the Power FC or on stock ECU?
Thanks,
David
09-19-13, 07:35 PM
#23
CA Smog
Cooling means an efficient all-metal radiator, aluminum AST, sound coolant hoses...especially the turbo coolant lines. Cooling means downloading a copy of the Factory Service Manual from the 3rd Gen. Stickys and learning how to properly flush the system with fresh coolant and as much distilled water to coolant as you can safely get away with in your climate...and burping the system to purge any air left behind by the change. Cooling means making sure you have good (.9 bar) caps on the system, and an aftermarket temperature gauge installed since the factory gauge is worse than worthless. Cooling also means searching and reading up on other worthwhile cooling mods like changing out the OEM fan thermoswitch for an S5 version to lower the threshold temperature for the fans to kick on from 108 C. (226 F.) to 95 C. (203 F.), or getting inexpensive upholstery foam and plugging all the small gaps around the radiator face. Cooling means making sure you have a sound belly-pan in place, and cleaning and straightening the fins on the oil coolers.
And intercoolers are to cool the intake air, they do virtually nothing for engine cooling.
And intercoolers are to cool the intake air, they do virtually nothing for engine cooling.
I just quote this again to remind myself about importance of cooling.
I got an AST from one of the member.
I ordered Koyo N-Flo.
I just fail the CA Smog for out of states vehicle inspection for DMV. I do not want to do the hoses and AST before the DMV inspection. They do not want to see any after market parts. Maybe the radiator would be fine.
Here is the question, sometimes my 7 turn off the engine while I down shift to 2nd when I am about to stop for traffic light.
At the smog station, the technician said that the car is vibrating too much and it feels like O2 sensor is not working.
I check the Oil, it is in honey color with toped off, but I will do the change.
The car does not feel light there is 2nd turbo going on after 4500 rpm.
Do I better do knock sensor and O2 sensors replcement?
If so, what brand are you guys recomending?
09-20-13, 07:04 AM
#24
...I just fail the CA Smog for out of states vehicle inspection for DMV. I do not want to do the hoses and AST before the DMV inspection. They do not want to see any after market parts. Maybe the radiator would be fine.
Here is the question, sometimes my 7 turn off the engine while I down shift to 2nd when I am about to stop for traffic light.
At the smog station, the technician said that the car is vibrating too much and it feels like O2 sensor is not working....
Here is the question, sometimes my 7 turn off the engine while I down shift to 2nd when I am about to stop for traffic light.
At the smog station, the technician said that the car is vibrating too much and it feels like O2 sensor is not working....
I don't have emissions testing, so no personal experience. If you have a working OMP don't pre-mix and be sure your car is up to full operating temp. Maybe try a new set of plugs and the new O2 sensor. IIRC, they don't cost much. NGK for plugs in stock heat ranges. Haven't bought many O2 sensors over the years, but I think Bosch is OK.
09-20-13, 04:18 PM
#25
Get the Factory Service Manual and trouble-shoot, but if I understand you right on the stalling, it might be the dash-pot or Idle Air Control.
I don't have emissions testing, so no personal experience. If you have a working OMP don't pre-mix and be sure your car is up to full operating temp. Maybe try a new set of plugs and the new O2 sensor. IIRC, they don't cost much. NGK for plugs in stock heat ranges. Haven't bought many O2 sensors over the years, but I think Bosch is OK.
I don't have emissions testing, so no personal experience. If you have a working OMP don't pre-mix and be sure your car is up to full operating temp. Maybe try a new set of plugs and the new O2 sensor. IIRC, they don't cost much. NGK for plugs in stock heat ranges. Haven't bought many O2 sensors over the years, but I think Bosch is OK.
Thanks for the quick reply.
OK.
1. Smog Technician told me that the O2 sensors for the first place.
However, after the O2 sensors replacement, may be the cat is already cooked, so I need new cat. That is baaaaad,,,,,,,
2. The fuel is too rich,,,,,, That would be O2 sensors again.
3. I took out the hose from stock blow off to air box to have turbo noise, that was a big mistake. After I put the hose back on, the 7 has the power for the 2nd turbo boost!
Thanks again, and I will do the O2 sensors and Spark Plugs first to see.