Going from an Evo to an FD?
07-27-18, 09:59 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Going from an Evo to an FD?
Has anyone on here had experience driving either a Evo 8 or 9, then going to a FD chassis? Or vice versa?
If so, what are your thoughts?
I currently have a modified Evo 8, but I'm selling it to purchase an FD. What can I expect?
Thanks
If so, what are your thoughts?
I currently have a modified Evo 8, but I'm selling it to purchase an FD. What can I expect?
Thanks
07-27-18, 11:57 AM
#2
I think, as an EVO driver, you'll be ready to have trouble finding mechanics that can work on your car, and also be ready to pay way too much when you do find one. 
I've had some fun little battles with evos at the track. Some smoke me and I can take care of some of them too. Definitely different driving dynamics, but the FD and the EVO are really pretty similar as far as lap times go. I'll pull on 'em under braking and in the sweepers, but the exit speed out of the tight corners belongs to the Mits.
I've had some fun little battles with evos at the track. Some smoke me and I can take care of some of them too. Definitely different driving dynamics, but the FD and the EVO are really pretty similar as far as lap times go. I'll pull on 'em under braking and in the sweepers, but the exit speed out of the tight corners belongs to the Mits.
07-30-18, 09:23 AM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info. I don't see myself taking an FD to the track. I will likely be more of a reserved, nice weekend weather driver. Likewise, I didn't track my Evo.
With that being said, anymore feedback regarding going from an Evo to FD or vice versa?
With that being said, anymore feedback regarding going from an Evo to FD or vice versa?
07-30-18, 05:55 PM
#5
definitely second the guy who mentioned repair costs. Engine bay is more open and easier to work on in fd vs evo in my opinion.
Hopefully that helps a little.
07-30-18, 10:28 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
That's a good point about the weight difference between the two cars. I weighed my Evo a few times and without me in it, it was 3160. From the research I've done. I can expect an FD to be the better part of 300 lbs lighter it seems. I figured that would make it more nimble.
That's interesting about the throttle response... is that because of the rotary? Because honestly, I thought my Evo had pretty good throttle response. Now lag was a slightly different story - when I upgraded the turbo on my Evo, there was obviously more lag. I didn't know what kind of lag to expect with the FD. I've heard there's a method for converting the twin turbo setup to a true-twin setup? Is this a common modification? What are the pros and cons to doing this? I would assume it'll increase lag too?
Finally, when it comes to repair costs, I'm hoping to avoid some of that by doing some of the work myself, but also leaving the car relatively mild as to not add too much extra strain on parts, thus causing breakage and trips to the mechanic. I did a lot of the work to my Evo myself, and am comfortable doing some of my own work. Now if it was pulling the engine to do a bridge port, I'd have a rotary guy do that... but I'm also hoping to not have to cross that bridge. As I mentioned, I'd like to keep the car fairly mild, at least for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
That's interesting about the throttle response... is that because of the rotary? Because honestly, I thought my Evo had pretty good throttle response. Now lag was a slightly different story - when I upgraded the turbo on my Evo, there was obviously more lag. I didn't know what kind of lag to expect with the FD. I've heard there's a method for converting the twin turbo setup to a true-twin setup? Is this a common modification? What are the pros and cons to doing this? I would assume it'll increase lag too?
Finally, when it comes to repair costs, I'm hoping to avoid some of that by doing some of the work myself, but also leaving the car relatively mild as to not add too much extra strain on parts, thus causing breakage and trips to the mechanic. I did a lot of the work to my Evo myself, and am comfortable doing some of my own work. Now if it was pulling the engine to do a bridge port, I'd have a rotary guy do that... but I'm also hoping to not have to cross that bridge. As I mentioned, I'd like to keep the car fairly mild, at least for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
07-30-18, 10:34 PM
#7
I had an evo x... But I also had a galant vr4. Obviously dsm gets **** on for reliability, but for different reasons. I will tell you this, the 4G63 is a stronger motor that is more robust than the 13b. I ****** love the 4G63 and I am importing an evo 5 the minute it becomes 25 years here in the states. I already have the money put aside for a white one, I literally think about it every day.
That said, the fd was my dream car and I love it more than any other car out there. It's just a blast to drive, and the feedback from the public is insane. Everyone wants to talk about it and everyone looks at it in awe. I wouldn't take an evo viii over an fd ever.
The fd is simple, the engine bay is plentiful (unlike my c5 frc) and the maintenance is easy to do even on jackstands. My father and myself literally installed the motor by hand back in 2003, it's just an awesome car to work on. Be ready for brittle electrical wiring, brittle vacuum hoses, and all the pain of a 25 year old car, but it's worth it.
That said, the fd was my dream car and I love it more than any other car out there. It's just a blast to drive, and the feedback from the public is insane. Everyone wants to talk about it and everyone looks at it in awe. I wouldn't take an evo viii over an fd ever.
The fd is simple, the engine bay is plentiful (unlike my c5 frc) and the maintenance is easy to do even on jackstands. My father and myself literally installed the motor by hand back in 2003, it's just an awesome car to work on. Be ready for brittle electrical wiring, brittle vacuum hoses, and all the pain of a 25 year old car, but it's worth it.
Last edited by nopistons1994; 07-30-18 at 10:37 PM.
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07-30-18, 10:39 PM
#8
That's a good point about the weight difference between the two cars. I weighed my Evo a few times and without me in it, it was 3160. From the research I've done. I can expect an FD to be the better part of 300 lbs lighter it seems. I figured that would make it more nimble.
That's interesting about the throttle response... is that because of the rotary? Because honestly, I thought my Evo had pretty good throttle response. Now lag was a slightly different story - when I upgraded the turbo on my Evo, there was obviously more lag. I didn't know what kind of lag to expect with the FD. I've heard there's a method for converting the twin turbo setup to a true-twin setup? Is this a common modification? What are the pros and cons to doing this? I would assume it'll increase lag too?
Finally, when it comes to repair costs, I'm hoping to avoid some of that by doing some of the work myself, but also leaving the car relatively mild as to not add too much extra strain on parts, thus causing breakage and trips to the mechanic. I did a lot of the work to my Evo myself, and am comfortable doing some of my own work. Now if it was pulling the engine to do a bridge port, I'd have a rotary guy do that... but I'm also hoping to not have to cross that bridge. As I mentioned, I'd like to keep the car fairly mild, at least for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
That's interesting about the throttle response... is that because of the rotary? Because honestly, I thought my Evo had pretty good throttle response. Now lag was a slightly different story - when I upgraded the turbo on my Evo, there was obviously more lag. I didn't know what kind of lag to expect with the FD. I've heard there's a method for converting the twin turbo setup to a true-twin setup? Is this a common modification? What are the pros and cons to doing this? I would assume it'll increase lag too?
Finally, when it comes to repair costs, I'm hoping to avoid some of that by doing some of the work myself, but also leaving the car relatively mild as to not add too much extra strain on parts, thus causing breakage and trips to the mechanic. I did a lot of the work to my Evo myself, and am comfortable doing some of my own work. Now if it was pulling the engine to do a bridge port, I'd have a rotary guy do that... but I'm also hoping to not have to cross that bridge. As I mentioned, I'd like to keep the car fairly mild, at least for now.
Thanks for the feedback.
the skies the limit with modding as you likely already know. I'm not sure what the "true twin turbo" statement is all about but I do know that the 13brew is renown for performance achievement. That question about increasing lag etc. Is far to vague unfortunately. There are many parameters that effect lag.
piston and rotary work is absolutely different. I'd say pulling the motor is contrarily the easy part, porting it, I'd agree. I'm by no means a wealth of knowledge on this topic but simply wanted to share my experiences with the differences in evo8 vs fd.
I look forward to following your build!
07-31-18, 11:28 AM
#9
Depends on the FD you might get. Many modifications really change handling and the experience. Other than that, two less doors, less luggage space, poorer gas mileage, way worse winter driving, many more questions from strangers like “What kind of car is that?” , generally less refinement, more repair costs (the car is much older) and a lot less worry about your taste in cars from friends.
Last edited by Sgtblue; 07-31-18 at 11:31 AM.
07-31-18, 11:31 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If I'm not mistaken, the twin turbo setup on the FD is similar to the setup on the mk4 Supra... it's a sequential turbo setup. One turbo comes on, then under full load, the second turbo spools. Just like with the Supras, you can switch over to TTC mode where both turbos come on at the same time, instead of sequentially. There's slightly more lag, but you get full boost, from both turbos, at the same time.
07-31-18, 11:40 AM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Depends on the FD you might get. Many modifications really change handling and the experience. Other than that, two less doors, less luggage space, poorer gas mileage, way worse winter driving, many more questions from strangers like “What kind of car is that?” , generally less refinement, more repair costs (the car is much older) and a lot less worry about your taste in cars from friends.
Two less doors - I'm OK with.
Less luggage space - not an issue.
Poorer gas mileage - that surprises me. What kind of mileage are we talking? It's not as if the 4G63 is known for it's fuel efficiency.
Winter driving - not an issue. Car will be garaged all winter.
Questions from strangers - I'm OK with.
Less refinement - I'm kind of surprised, but I guess that's kind of expected since the FD will be 10 years older than my Evo was, and my Evo is 15 years old.
More repair costs - hopefully can be avoided by buying a cleaner FD to begin with. And the willingness to do some of the work myself. Are OEM interior pieces and engine parts still available from Mazda and/or aftermarket?
07-31-18, 11:42 AM
#12
Depends on the FD you might get. Many modifications really change handling and the experience. Other than that, two less doors, less luggage space, poorer gas mileage, way worse winter driving, many more questions from strangers like “What kind of car is that?” , generally less refinement, more repair costs (the car is much older) and a lot less worry about your taste in cars from friends.
07-31-18, 12:03 PM
#15
Many have, mostly for the simplicity. But many have openly regretted it too. If you’re able in your state, you can move to a stand-alone ECU which improves transition on the sequential system and at the same time, also allows you to eliminate about half of the solenoids, check-valves and vacuum hoses just by deleting emissions.
07-31-18, 01:15 PM
#16
Craig King
If I'm not mistaken, the twin turbo setup on the FD is similar to the setup on the mk4 Supra... it's a sequential turbo setup. One turbo comes on, then under full load, the second turbo spools. Just like with the Supras, you can switch over to TTC mode where both turbos come on at the same time, instead of sequentially. There's slightly more lag, but you get full boost, from both turbos, at the same time.
If I'm not mistaken, the twin turbo setup on the FD is similar to the setup on the mk4 Supra... it's a sequential turbo setup. One turbo comes on, then under full load, the second turbo spools. Just like with the Supras, you can switch over to TTC mode where both turbos come on at the same time, instead of sequentially. There's slightly more lag, but you get full boost, from both turbos, at the same time.
You can simplify the FD by removing it all in a parallel turbo system or simplify and learn a lot about the FD by removing all but 3 solenoids and actuators for the simplified sequential system.
The downside to parallel turbo system is that you don't get full boost at 2,000rpm like stock, but have to wait till 4,000rpm, so low rpm power suffers greatly. Peak power potential is about the same since over 4,500rpm both sequential and parallel are using both turbos together in parallel operation.
Poorer gas mileage - that surprises me. What kind of mileage are we talking? It's not as if the 4G63 is known for it's fuel efficiency.
FD has a 20 gallon gas tank which is much more convenient than the Evos tiny tank and gets ~ 15mpg city and 25mpg highway. Expect to get 20mpg in normal mixed driving. Best I mpg I achieved with FD was 26mpg driving it home from purchase (R1 model with no cruise control).
The #s I quote are stock ECU mpg. If you go standalone expect mpg to suffer greatly as most tuners are so gun shy on rotaries they will default with a rich tune everywhere.
07-31-18, 01:37 PM
#17
Ban Peak
iTrader: (49)
I'm modified w/ a single turbo. I get 16-19 MPG on the highway and 12-13 MPG mixed or heavy footed. A more modern ECU that operates closed loop with a WBO2 would probably yield better MPG over the PFC.
08-01-18, 07:43 AM
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The downside to parallel turbo system is that you don't get full boost at 2,000rpm like stock, but have to wait till 4,000rpm, so low rpm power suffers greatly. Peak power potential is about the same since over 4,500rpm both sequential and parallel are using both turbos together in parallel operation.
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08-01-18, 08:10 AM
#19
Never been non-sequential but I think max power will be the same with the twins, since at any given psi their max output is the same.
Helping the engine breath better by opening the intake, freer flowing exhaust and removing emissions, as well as lowering IATs and less pressure drop with a more efficient IC are things that increase power separate from changes in turbo output. But those things also require support mods too.
Helping the engine breath better by opening the intake, freer flowing exhaust and removing emissions, as well as lowering IATs and less pressure drop with a more efficient IC are things that increase power separate from changes in turbo output. But those things also require support mods too.
08-01-18, 08:14 AM
#20
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watch boostaholics on youtube kid had a evo and traded for a fd
08-01-18, 11:35 AM
#21
Craig King
Does the parallel setup give you more a punch when both turbos hit full boost? More so than with the sequential setup?
Does the parallel setup give you more a punch when both turbos hit full boost? More so than with the sequential setup?
HP only Dyno
Sequential dyno in Green Non Sequential dyno in Blue and Red
Last edited by BLUE TII; 08-01-18 at 11:39 AM.
08-01-18, 11:44 AM
#22
The same Sequential in Green and Non Sequential in Blue and Red, but with HP and Torque
You can see Non Sequential is giving up almost 100ftlbs torque at 3,000rpm.
That isn't even with the sequential control system modified to provide full boost on the primary turbo (torque will be more even on primary and 2ndary turbo in this case).
You can see Non Sequential is giving up almost 100ftlbs torque at 3,000rpm.
That isn't even with the sequential control system modified to provide full boost on the primary turbo (torque will be more even on primary and 2ndary turbo in this case).
08-01-18, 01:32 PM
#23
08-01-18, 04:37 PM
#24
By comparing the power below 4,500rpm which is the primary only to both turbos together switch-over point on the sequential system.
The parallel turbos won't make appreciably more power under 4,500rpm no matter what boost they are run at because they are spooling (the exponentially increasing power area of the chart). The little bit of power gain below 4,500rpm from the 16psi run to the 21psi run is typically from holding the wastegate completely closed longer.
The parallel turbos won't make appreciably more power under 4,500rpm no matter what boost they are run at because they are spooling (the exponentially increasing power area of the chart). The little bit of power gain below 4,500rpm from the 16psi run to the 21psi run is typically from holding the wastegate completely closed longer.
08-01-18, 04:44 PM
#25
As you can see from the top sequential chart that shows the boost trace, most people will have less boost on the primary turbo because it does not boost creep as much as the primary and 2ndary together since the primary turbo in effect has two wastegates (wastegate and prespool flappers) and when running both turbos together there is only the wastegate to bypass exhaust.
You can however alter the boost pattern so the primary turbo alone boosts the same peak boost pressure (or even more) and then torque will be much closer between primary and both turbos together in sequential operation with a dip at transition.
You can however alter the boost pattern so the primary turbo alone boosts the same peak boost pressure (or even more) and then torque will be much closer between primary and both turbos together in sequential operation with a dip at transition.