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FD3S Suspension Upgrades?

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Old 12-16-16, 11:29 PM
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FD3S Suspension Upgrades?

So I really want to overhaul all the suspension on my 93 FD

I've had people tell me to go with Megan Racing because the make all the trailing arms and tie rod end, but I've also heard people say that that their weld snap pretty much all the time.

I've also see the supernow lower control arms floating around and those look really beefy but I heard there's problems with those too.

And I looked into Cusco but I have no idea how to order their stuff or know how to read Japanese cause Google translate only goes so far.

But any insight is appreciated . Thanks guys.
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Old 12-17-16, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by The Same Son View Post
So I really want to overhaul all the suspension on my 93 FD

I've had people tell me to go with Megan Racing because the make all the trailing arms and tie rod end, but I've also heard people say that that their weld snap pretty much all the time.

with regards to arm upgrades it depends if you will require extra adjustments for whatever your building your car for. If you don't it would be bette

with regards to arm upgrades, this will

I've also see the supernow lower control arms floating around and those look really beefy but I heard there's problems with those too.

And I looked into Cusco but I have no idea how to order their stuff or know how to read Japanese cause Google translate only goes so far.

But any insight is appreciated . Thanks guys.
i would start by polybushing all the factory arms, usually cars of our age these bushes aren't in great condition.

In terms of coilovers id run the best teins you can afford, all levels of their coilovers are great. I had a set of mono flex on my car and they were great, changed to ksport because my OCD with colour coding everything kicked in, these are great too but the teins were much more sturdy and beefy. regards to arms, depends on your build. Does the car require more adjustment than the factory arms can give? If not just clean them up and pillowball bush them.

I have the full supernow arm setup at the back, no issues so far but when fitting the duraluminum lower arms I had to take some material off the metal bushes they came with because they were too thick to fit into the factory location where the bolt feeds though. If you do require adjustment supernow stuff is nice but I'd urge you to look at the nagisa auto products. Much superior build quality imo.

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Old 12-17-16, 08:17 AM
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You want to overall, start by examining and replacing ALL of the pillowball mounts in the rear. With mileage and a little neglect they're probably due. If you're flush, replace differential and front control arm bushings with polyurethane. I've never seen any real advantage, especially to a street car, for any of those toe links, trailing arms etc... other than bragging rights to the jdm'ness and some colorful anodizing. Most, if not all IMO aren't as good as factory and just make me smile alittle when I see them. And stay with OEM tie-rods.
You want to improve handling, do so with some good coilovers as mentioned above. MAYBE a little stiffer sway bar like Racing Beat and good wheels and tires. My .02.

https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...shings-211372/
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Old 12-17-16, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by OG BBF View Post
i would start by polybushing all the factory arms, usually cars of our age these bushes aren't in great condition.

In terms of coilovers id run the best teins you can afford, all levels of their coilovers are great. I had a set of mono flex on my car and they were great, changed to ksport because my OCD with colour coding everything kicked in, these are great too but the teins were much more sturdy and beefy. regards to arms, depends on your build. Does the car require more adjustment than the factory arms can give? If not just clean them up and pillowball bush them.

I have the full supernow arm setup at the back, no issues so far but when fitting the duraluminum lower arms I had to take some material off the metal bushes they came with because they were too thick to fit into the factory location where the bolt feeds though. If you do require adjustment supernow stuff is nice but I'd urge you to look at the nagisa auto products. Much superior build quality imo.

I've never looked into Tein coilovers just yet because I haven't heard much about them. I've really only looked into ohlins DFV and the Fortune 500/510 serious coilovers.

But at 108k miles I really want to replace all bushings and pillowballs as soon as possible. But I will look into the Nagisa Auto products. Thanks
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Old 12-18-16, 11:27 AM
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I had hks, on a different rotary car, but they were too soft, maybe got the soft ones. Now I have teins street and drag, really nice. One of the best upgrades I made to the car.
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Old 12-31-16, 01:49 AM
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If you are wanting to upgrade to coil overs, i would highly highly highly recommand Stance coilovers!!!!! Well worth the money!! I habe no complaints with mine!
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Old 01-24-17, 07:07 PM
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Is there a complete kit to replace all the bushing's in the car? Preferably with poly
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Old 01-24-17, 08:45 PM
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Is there a complete kit to replace all the bushing's in the car? Preferably with poly

You don't want to do that.
The rear suspension is mostly pillow-ball/spherical bearings and while companies do make bushings to replace them those bushings will cause binding/unreliable traction in the back.

You can safely replace-
steering rack bushings
front upper arm bushings
front lower arm bushings
rear upper a- arm inner bushings
rear upper shock bushings (if rear upper a-arm bushings are replaced)
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Old 01-25-17, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
Is there a complete kit to replace all the bushing's in the car? Preferably with poly

You don't want to do that.
The rear suspension is mostly pillow-ball/spherical bearings and while companies do make bushings to replace them those bushings will cause binding/unreliable traction in the back.

You can safely replace-
steering rack bushings
front upper arm bushings
front lower arm bushings
rear upper a- arm inner bushings
rear upper shock bushings (if rear upper a-arm bushings are replaced)
Good to know. These car's are different, as I was used to the old school leaf setup of the vette's. Going to start researching that now.
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Old 01-25-17, 03:01 PM
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Arrow

https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...gs-fd-1024242/

Mazdacomp is also a choice to consider for at least some bushings.
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Old 01-25-17, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgtblue View Post
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...gs-fd-1024242/

Mazdacomp is also a choice to consider for at least some bushings.
Thanks for the share. From what I gather, OEM is best all around?
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Old 01-25-17, 03:25 PM
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Probably best for a car just for the street. If you track, then one of the poly choices might be better. Somewhat of a compromise between the two would be the Mazdacomp bushings. (MAZDA motorsports). You just need proof of a couple sanctioned events like autocross to qualify. And all the other OEM stuff like those rear pillowballs are discounted too.
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Old 01-25-17, 04:27 PM
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Best is a term that depends on the application the car will be subjected to.

Stock is best if you want to retain the stock handling since the stock bushings create the dynamic toe steering that was supposed to make the car easier to drive.

Mazda Comp is best if you want to retain the stock handling since the stock bushings create the dynamic toe steering that was supposed to make the car easier to drive while firming up the suspension some.

Poly is best if you are on a budget or restrained by rules and want to firm up the suspension and eliminate the dynamic toe steering while retaining street friendly ride/noises.

Delrin is best if you are on a budget or restrained by rules and want to firm up suspension and eliminate the dynamic toe steering and don't care about street ride or noises.

Spherical bearing bushing replacements are best for all out performance while eliminating toe steering, though they will transmit a lot of road noise/vibration and wear out quickly.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
Best is a term that depends on the application the car will be subjected to.

Stock is best if you want to retain the stock handling since the stock bushings create the dynamic toe steering that was supposed to make the car easier to drive.

Mazda Comp is best if you want to retain the stock handling since the stock bushings create the dynamic toe steering that was supposed to make the car easier to drive while firming up the suspension some.

Poly is best if you are on a budget or restrained by rules and want to firm up the suspension and eliminate the dynamic toe steering while retaining street friendly ride/noises.

Delrin is best if you are on a budget or restrained by rules and want to firm up suspension and eliminate the dynamic toe steering and don't care about street ride or noises.

Spherical bearing bushing replacements are best for all out performance while eliminating toe steering, though they will transmit a lot of road noise/vibration and wear out quickly.


Keep in mind, you will never need "dynamic toe steering" on the street.


The wrong type of dynamic toe is also detrimental to handling. While not an expert (yet) on FD suspension, most performance cars are designed to have the rear "toe in" on compression (regardless of bushing design) to aid in rear traction through turns. Miatas are designed like this.


With that being said, there is never a one size fits all approach to suspension nor alignments. Cars should be aligned and setup accordingly to their use and/or road conditions and track or track conditions.
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Old 01-26-17, 03:01 PM
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The FD system is most active under braking actually, so it is very evident on the street.
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Old 01-26-17, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
The FD system is most active under braking actually, so it is very evident on the street.
How so? Why would you want rear toe changes under braking? Or any toe change under braking? Sure, give me some toe-in for stability under hard braking, but that would not co-align with a great feature such as the toe in on compression. (Talking about the rear suspension).


Typically, as the suspension compresses you would gain toe in, as it would aid in getting the car rotated in the direction of the turn therefore able to feed more throttle. For upwards travel (the inside wheel of a turn) you want the wheel to toe OUT to assist the inside wheel turning.

Just as an example, on tracks that have have speed right handers I would set my rear toe to the following:


Left -
1/16 toe in

Right-

1/16 toe out
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Old 01-26-17, 04:17 PM
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From what I remember, the front and rear toe in on braking to gain stability under braking.

It helps you brake in a straight line and adds more stability braking into a turn.

It does however slow the transition if you want to brake heavily and then turn in aggressively.

Example on the street-
if you had to brake hard on the freeway and then found you didn't have enough room to stop and had to turn into your safe space to avoid an accident.

The Yamaguchi FD book has 10 pages of text and diagrams on the FD toe control suspension and how it works to make the car easier to drive.

Before electronic aids like Dynamic Stability Control Mazda added mechanical aids into the suspension to keep average drivers out of ditches.
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Old 01-26-17, 04:19 PM
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Mazda did the toe change on the FD not with suspension compression (bump steer much?), but with forward/backward sliding bushings.

When you eliminate the function of the sliding bushings in the FD you have a more pure handling suspension like the RX-8 with the DSC in malfuntion mode (ie turned off while avoiding lawsuits).

Last edited by BLUE TII; 01-26-17 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 01-27-17, 08:16 AM
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Obviously this is a very complex and intricate situation. I just bought the Yamaguchi book for the FD to help educate myself on the reasoning behind the designs on this car.


Also - Screw DSC! I hate any types of driver assists. Good for bad drivers but that is about it.
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Old 01-27-17, 10:34 AM
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I found DSC quite handy driving my RX-8 on slicks on snow/ice.

The other great thing about DSC is with the RX-8 at least you can turn it all the way off for a great honest handling chassis instead of the manufacturer trying to make the chassis "safe" handling with understeer and dynamic toe like the FD.
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Old 01-27-17, 11:19 AM
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Slicks on snow and ice?
I didn't think dsc could be turned completely off.
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Old 01-27-17, 12:25 PM
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RX-8 is very interesting.

If you push the DSC button it lessens how intrusive DSC is, but it is still definitely there.

If you push the DSC button and hold it for 7 seconds or so the "DSC malfunction" light comes on letting you know DSC system is malfunctioning (off all the way) and the ECU logs a code.

This lets drivers turn the DSC off while covering Mazda's *** in a lawsuit since they have warnings not to drive with a malfunction light illuminated.

Also, as you switch between street tires and slicks you can feel the computer slowly relearn the limits of traction and when to intercede and how abruptly.

When you first switch to slicks the DSC really freaks out and is pretty useless.
If you keep the car on slicks as I do, the DSC actually becomes a useful tool for more relaxed driving on slicks when you are just taking it easy trying to get somewhere.
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Old 01-27-17, 01:01 PM
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Lol...that is a pretty cheeky way of being able to turn it off. I had a friend that autocrossed his 8 a few years back. I don't think he knew about that. But why slicks with R compound rubber in the snow and ice? Don't they get harder than a *****'s heart?
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Old 01-27-17, 01:06 PM
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I still have yet to drive a car where the traction control / active handling / stability control helps me... and I've driven a lot of fast cars on the race track. I feel that as the driver, I can control it better.

One of my other cars is a 600hp C6 Z06, which I have the TCS/Active handling permanently disabled. Keep in mind, when I first bought that car almost 10 years ago, I thought active handling was the best thing ever. As I became a much better, faster driver over the years of competitive road course racing, I realized that it absolutely sucks and wanted nothing to do with it. This has been my experience with many other cars as well.

With that being said, The best system I experienced was on a Ferrari F430 Italia, which is to be expected. I found it quite non-intrusive while still able to ride that fine line of friction at the limit.


I'm not a Lewis Hamilton or Ayrton Senna by any means, but I've been competitively racing for numerous years now.
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Old 01-27-17, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgtblue View Post
Lol...that is a pretty cheeky way of being able to turn it off. I had a friend that autocrossed his 8 a few years back. I don't think he knew about that. But why slicks with R compound rubber in the snow and ice? Don't they get harder than a *****'s heart?


They do... Not to mention, every single "R-comp" or "Slick" tire REQUIRES heat in the tire, along with a decently warm road surface.

Cold racing tires are sketchy. Racing tires with excessive heat cycles are also sketchy.
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