gregom

Before replacing my clutch the engine started and ran fine. I did have to replace the starter motor about 3 months ago but haven't had problems since until the clutch replacement.

So here's the turn of events... after replacing the clutch and hydraulics, the engine wouldn't start. It would turn over a little slowly but just wouldn't start. One weird thing was when trying to start I would hear a spark occasionally from the starter motor when trying to crank. The voltmeter on the dash reads about 9 volts. We tried to jump start it with another car (still showed 9 volts) and tried to pop start it. Tried starter fluid in the carb but that didn't help either. I pulled the spark plugs and at first I thought it was broken because there was a large 1+mm gap. But all 4 were like that so I figured this is normal on these motors.

So I took the starter motor off and had it tested at an auto parts store, it came back a pass. I also bought some new spark plugs because I had already removed the old ones, the new ones appear to have the same gap but I installed them. After I put the new plugs in and put the starter back in, the engine started up on the second try.

So I drove the car and the clutch feels great... stopped for some food and when I started the car again the motor turned over a little slowly, felt like a weak battery. I drove it again the next day, also felt like a weak battery on start. The voltmeter was reading about 11 volts while driving (it has always done this even before the clutch replacement). Anyway the car worked fine that day but the engine was slower to crank on starts.

The day after I tried to start it and it won't start at all. Same slower turning of the motor but it just wont spring to live. So I took the alternator off and had it checked at an auto parts store, it passed. I bought a new battery for it as well... installed it and put the alternator back on, but it still won't start and sounds the same when trying to start... a slow crank.

So i'm not sure what the problem is... everything is hooked up right from what I can tell. The only two things I noticed is the lead going to the starter solenoid was pretty dirty inside the plug (the one on top, I think its the ignition switch lead), so I tried to clean it a little with electrical connection cleaner, but I don't think I did much. I also noticed a small grounding lead going from the engine hoist hook on the top of the engine (which I had to remove the bolt going to the transmission to get the transmission out for the clutch replacement) had broken off. So that ground lead is not connected to anything. I tried to strip back some of the rubber and attach it to some metal but this made no difference. The lead appears to go to the blue electric module to the left of the engine (left side of car). Here is a picture for reference...






So does anyone have any ideas here? I'm not very good with diagnosing starting problems...

gerald m

Where does your battery ground go to ?? Your battery should test 13 to 14 volts weather it is running or not .. It sounds to me you have grounding issues .. Check your battery( engine not running ) for volts .. when you have poor voltage it makes for very high amperage draws on the starter .. Check both your battery cables for loose or corroded . even under the cable coating there could be corrosion . if your charging system is working proper there should be more than 11 volts when the engine is running .. No offense to anyone but if you are going by your stock gauges they are very likely not accurate anymore .. especially if you have grounding issues .. Check all your grounds ,the starter will never turn proper if it not grounded good . One of the bell housing bolts is a good place for the engine ground and that is where they usually are ,,did you reattach it after the clutch work ???.. It is also possible that some of your electrical components won't work proper when starved for power ..

zaidnew

iTrader: (2)

it seem you have a bad battery

gregom

Sigh... i'm not sure here, I think I have fuel and electrical problems now.

First off I think the starting problem may be fuel related because I got the car to start by removing the fuel check valve. I took it out and put the hose from the carb going into a glass jar. As soon as that hose was disconnected the engine seemed like it wanted to start. After a few tries I got the engine to run... after about 10 seconds of running fuel started coming out of the hose. I put it all back together and it is starting ok now, but still feels a little hesitant even on warm starts. I have to give it a little throttle to get it to start which I never had to do before on warm starts.

Now I think there may be some electrical problem somewhere because when the engine is running, alternator output voltage is about 14.5, but shutters and drops for an instant very frequently. Using a voltmeter I see the voltage jumping around... I've seen 9, 5, 4, and even as low as 1 volts. It is jumping constantly and at no point is holding 14+ volts for more than a second or so. I get the same reading at the battery, but about 13.6 V when the engine is running... it also is jumping around and I see the same drops to low voltage while the engine is running.

The ONLY thing I can find wrong with electrical is that grounding lead I pointed out earlier. I looked in the FSM and that blue module is for "relief solenoid valve - relieves secondary air to air cleaner when unnecessary." I have no idea what that means, but it doesn't sound all that important to starting or charging, at least to me it doesnt... But I DID break this grounding lead and probably should fix it. It went into this little fuse cylinder looking thing (pics below). Does anyone know what this is for?








It came from on top of the engine near the rear lift or cherry picker ring...





Again as for the starting issue I don't think its electrical, I didn't touch any electrical stuff to get the motor to start, all I did was remove the fuel check valve and its hose, start the engine, then reattach it. It is as I said starting ok now if I give it a little throttle.

It's been running two days now, a little hesitate on warm starts but it goes. On colt starts it takes me 2-5 tries depending on how cold it is. I used to be able to start it in one go with my procedure of pump accelerator pedal five times, pull and hold choke, engage starter... once started I give it a little revs to keep it from dying and release the choke. Now none of that seems to be making much of a difference.

So now i'm really confused... could this be a fuel pump problem? I have this issue when WOT in 2nd gear, the engine just lets off at about 6000 RPM, feels like I let off the accelerator pedal just enough to hold steady speed. When I go to 3rd or 4th gear WOT the engine stutters like the engine wants to stall... think jack rabbit starts, too low of a gear. If I let off the throttle and take it to 20% or less it smooths out and is fine. But any WOT action in these higher gears makes feel like it is going to stall.

So i'm running out of options here i've checked all my leads and hoses... can't find anything wrong.

gerald m

The( thing ) with the wire broken off is a condenser for what I'm not sure .. trace the wires and you should be able to find out .. Is that the wire hanging in the pic check and see if there is power to it maybe it is shorting out off and on .. could be fuel filter giving trouble maybe check you fuel pressures even check the float level to make sure the carb has a good supply of fuel

gregom

Hmmm... think this will work?

http://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-Elect.../dp/B000FQ1M4M

Could this be causing my highly erratic voltage output by the alternator?

gerald m

You never answered my question does the wire in your last set of pics belong to the condenser?? .if so it for sure should not be grounded . check the wire for power with ignition on .. The condenser in the link is for ignition points it's not the same thing.. don't know if it will do the job or not . it looks like the condenser wire was torn off when you changed the clutch .. You really need to find out what it is hooked to as there are many different sizes for the storage of different amounts of energy ( D.C. power ) for DC power the condenser needs to be a polarized one ( For AC a non polarized is used ) If you can find one with a round push on male plug you will be close enough just make sure it is for DC power .. Yes it could cause problems in voltage spikes especially if it was used as a ground . let us know where the black wire goes .. What year of beast do you have

gregom

Yes that wire went to that condenser. I didn't know what that was so after the wire broke off I attached it to ground. I'll see if I can find a replacement DC condenser and see if that helps. I don't know why they went from the solenoid valve to the top of the engine for this lead. Since the condenser is bolted onto the surface of the engine I thought it was a ground connection.

Oh and the car is an 83 GS.

Thanks for the help.

gerald m

I not so sure that your problems will be over but try it .. Good luck